1190RR, Anyone?

[TroyBoy30]

http://motorcycledaily.com/29march10_Buell1190RR.htm

Buell's 1190RR: Where Buell Was Headed



http://motorcycledaily.com/032910top.jpg

http://www.pegasusraceteam.com/assets/images/db_images/db_1190RRB__ALC__171.jpg

[Woodk61000]

Will that one keep up with the 750's? Since the 1125 could only run with the 600's. Test track must have not had any right handers?

[KTM Rider]

that rear shock on that thing needs some tweaking based on the tire wear IMO

[jkhonea]

that rear shock on that thing needs some tweaking based on the tire wear IMO

Yup, just a little tearing from lighting it up out of corners.

[TLR67]

It dosent matter now.... Only History....

[jkhonea]

It dosent matter now.... Only History....

I'm not sure that's entirely true. They're opening this up to the European teams in hopes of possible World Superbike competition. If that happens, there's the possibility he might have some backers come down the line and get some momentum again. I'd like to see what he can do away from Harley Davidson control. I have a feeling he could do well when its all said and done. I'm glad he's not just rolling over and dying.

[KTM Rider]

Like I said...I would be looking at the shock valving....

[petrel800]

I enjoy the different sounds from twins, triples, and 4s, but unless he ditches the exhaust note of the harley, they'll always be an outsider looking in with me. Those things just don't sound right.

[wpalm00]

It's not a Harley motor. It is a BRP Rotax... It's a much better motor than in previous generations of Buell bikes...

[Seca]

I'm not sure that's entirely true. They're opening this up to the European teams in hopes of possible World Superbike competition. If that happens, there's the possibility he might have some backers come down the line and get some momentum again. I'd like to see what he can do away from Harley Davidson control. I have a feeling he could do well when its all said and done. I'm glad he's not just rolling over and dying.

Erik Buell's contract with HD has a no compet claus till 2/11. Then he can talk to any manufacturer.

[jkhonea]

Erik Buell's contract with HD has a no compet claus till 2/11. Then he can talk to any manufacturer.

Cool, hopefully he's just out testing the waters and can land something quick when the no compete clause expires. I wonder if that clause has survived since Buell no longer exists? Seems like that might have changed things?

[buellguy]

what was sooooo bad about the Buells in DSB? The KTM's, Duc's and the like were all around 1000cc why is no one bitching about them? OH I know they didn't win and the Buell did oh crap some one upset the Asian I4 dynasty all of a sudden somebody has to be cheating. Do some damn research for your self. Buell had a hell of a lot of restrictions just so it would be equal. God enough of the whining it was a race you lost. for those or you who didn't whine and cry this is not directed toward you. Just the babies that can't believe that a A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N motorcycle beat them.:pullhair:

[i-man]

what was sooooo bad about the Buells in DSB? The KTM's, Duc's and the like were all around 1000cc why is no one bitching about them? OH I know they didn't win and the Buell did oh crap some one upset the Asian I4 dynasty all of a sudden somebody has to be cheating. Do some damn research for your self. Buell had a hell of a lot of restrictions just so it would be equal. God enough of the whining it was a race you lost. for those or you who didn't whine and cry this is not directed toward you. Just the babies that can't believe that a A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N motorcycle beat them.:pullhair:

But, if I'm not mistaken, the other 1000cc twins were competing against 1000cc Jap bikes, not 600s. When Aprilia was still using the Rotax a few years ago, they raced against other 1000cc bikes in WSB. How in the hell can anyone think it is a fair race to put a liquid cooled 1000cc twin against 600cc fours when all the other liquid cooled 1000cc twins are racing the 1000cc fours?

Don't get me wrong. I love the Buells design, especially when they started using the Rotax engines but, they killed their credibility when they put it up against the 600s, imho. I would love to see an American made sportbike do well in the world market, and they have a chance with the Rotax engine.

You're coming off sounding like a bully picking on 600s. Why don't you put that Buell of yours on the track against the big boys. My guess is, in the right hands, it could hold it's own, which is why they should have had the balls to race the big boys and not the 600s.

[buellguy]

Engine Displacement: 600cc – 675cc – 848cc – 990cc – 1000cc – 1125cc
Horsepower: 120 hp to 145 hp
Minimum Weights: 4 cylinders – 360lbs.; 3 cylinders – 375lbs.; 2 cylinders – 385lbs.
Top Speed: 175 MPH
0-60 MPH: 3 seconds
¼ Mile Acceleration: 10 seconds
Tires: Dunlop SportMax GPA Front (120/70R-17) and Rear (190/55ZR-17)
Race Lengths: 50-mile sprints. The season-opening Daytona 200 is 57 laps.
Eligible Bikes: Aprilia RSV1000R, Buell 1125R, Ducati 848, Honda CBR600RR, Kawasaki ZX-6R, Suzuki GSX-R600, Triumph Daytona 675, Yamaha YZF-R6


As you can see the Aprillia and Ducati both are over 600cc's why is no one bitching about them? is it because they are not winning? And for the recored the 1125RR was meant and is competing in the AMA Superbike class are they still cheating? By the way in the first outing the 1125RR placed 12th I'd say thats pretty good for a team that has no sponsors with a brand new bike.

[i-man]

Engine Displacement: 600cc – 675cc – 848cc – 990cc – 1000cc – 1125cc
Horsepower: 120 hp to 145 hp
Minimum Weights: 4 cylinders – 360lbs.; 3 cylinders – 375lbs.; 2 cylinders – 385lbs.
Top Speed: 175 MPH
0-60 MPH: 3 seconds
¼ Mile Acceleration: 10 seconds
Tires: Dunlop SportMax GPA Front (120/70R-17) and Rear (190/55ZR-17)
Race Lengths: 50-mile sprints. The season-opening Daytona 200 is 57 laps.
Eligible Bikes: Aprilia RSV1000R, Buell 1125R, Ducati 848, Honda CBR600RR, Kawasaki ZX-6R, Suzuki GSX-R600, Triumph Daytona 675, Yamaha YZF-R6


As you can see the Aprillia and Ducati both are over 600cc's why is no one bitching about them? is it because they are not winning? And for the recored the 1125RR was meant and is competing in the AMA Superbike class are they still cheating? By the way in the first outing the 1125RR placed 12th I'd say thats pretty good for a team that has no sponsors with a brand new bike.
Say what you will, but I don't remember seeing the Aprilia in the race,,,,,,and the last time I checked, the Ducati 848 was not a liter class bike.

And as far as they are now competing in the AMA Superbike class, good for them, I am glad to see them picking on someone their own size, unfortunately, the Buelly of the 600s from last year got their asses handed to them when they try to fight someone their own size. I REALLY do hope they do well, but until they can podium, or at least be competitive against other liter class bikes, they ain't shown me sh1t.

Lastly,,,,,it's not a brand new bike either. Just sayin. Sorry, the RR is new. The R they raced in the 200 this year finished 8th against the 600s and the 848 from Ducati, which got 3rd.

[svmtbman]

Say what you will, but I don't remember seeing the Aprilia in the race,,,,,,and the last time I checked, the Ducati 848 was not a liter class bike.

Aprilia ran the RSVR 1000 in the Daytona Sportbike class last year along with the Jap 600s and Buells (KSW Motorsports with Chaz Davies riding it). I believe 4th place was the best they got last year. I don't think they are running the RSVR this year but are running the RSV-4 in the American Superbike class, it finished 14th in Saturday's race.

[i-man]

Aprilia ran the RSVR 1000 in the Daytona Sportbike class last year along with the Jap 600s and Buells (KSW Motorsports with Chaz Davies riding it). I believe 4th place was the best they got last year. I don't think they are running the RSVR this year but are running the RSV-4 in the American Superbike class, it finished 14th in Saturday's race.
Sorry, I didn't look at last years 200, just this year. But with that being the case, then Aprilia ain't showed me sh1t either. When you have to race your liter bike against 600s to even hope for a podium, that's pathetic.
Weird how Aprilia can't do sh1t here, but Max doubled last weekend in WSB.

[jkhonea]

Weird how Aprilia can't do sh1t here, but Max doubled last weekend in WSB.

You remember the Aprilia Max is running is the V4 Superbike, not the twin that has been in the American AMA series, right?

[i-man]

You remember the Aprilia Max is running is the V4 Superbike, not the twin that has been in the American AMA series, right?

Yeah, I know that, but my point remains the same. They can't do sh1t here, but can run a bike there that kicks ass. Not to mention, Max is no slouch as a rider.

On another note, I don't think the 848 should be running in the 600 class either.

[svmtbman]

V-twin to I-4 with the same CC will never match up as well, it's just the nature of the bike. With that being said, I'll take a twin any day over an I-4.

[i-man]

V-twin to I-4 with the same CC will never match up as well, it's just the nature of the bike. With that being said, I'll take a twin any day over an I-4.
Not just yeah, but hell yeah. :up:

[whorepedo]

V-twin to I-4 with the same CC will never match up as well, it's just the nature of the bike. With that being said, I'll take a twin any day over an I-4.

Amen.

[Mongo]

what was sooooo bad about the Buells in DSB? The KTM's, Duc's and the like were all around 1000cc why is no one bitching about them? OH I know they didn't win and the Buell did oh crap some one upset the Asian I4 dynasty all of a sudden somebody has to be cheating. Do some damn research for your self. Buell had a hell of a lot of restrictions just so it would be equal. God enough of the whining it was a race you lost. for those or you who didn't whine and cry this is not directed toward you. Just the babies that can't believe that a A-M-E-R-I-C-A-N motorcycle beat them.:pullhair:

You're confusing your classes. DSB allowed 848's, not 1k plus Ducs. The Ape was a design that I'd pretty much let into vintage racing. I have an 1125R and it is NOT a 600 class machine.

[Mongo]

Engine Displacement: 600cc – 675cc – 848cc – 990cc – 1000cc – 1125cc
Horsepower: 120 hp to 145 hp
Minimum Weights: 4 cylinders – 360lbs.; 3 cylinders – 375lbs.; 2 cylinders – 385lbs.
Top Speed: 175 MPH
0-60 MPH: 3 seconds
¼ Mile Acceleration: 10 seconds
Tires: Dunlop SportMax GPA Front (120/70R-17) and Rear (190/55ZR-17)
Race Lengths: 50-mile sprints. The season-opening Daytona 200 is 57 laps.
Eligible Bikes: Aprilia RSV1000R, Buell 1125R, Ducati 848, Honda CBR600RR, Kawasaki ZX-6R, Suzuki GSX-R600, Triumph Daytona 675, Yamaha YZF-R6


As you can see the Aprillia and Ducati both are over 600cc's why is no one bitching about them? is it because they are not winning? And for the recored the 1125RR was meant and is competing in the AMA Superbike class are they still cheating? By the way in the first outing the 1125RR placed 12th I'd say thats pretty good for a team that has no sponsors with a brand new bike.

Um, okay are you arguing for or against the Buell as a 600 class bike? You either have it being great doing 12th in the proper class for it's displacement/power/weight or you think it's totally outclass and is a 600 level machine - which is it?

[buellguy]

Ok the 1125R DSB bike was I admit was about 500cc larger but as "svmtbman" said earlier a twin will not perform the same as a I4 it just wont happen. Its like saying If you take a SV650 to the track you should be able to beat all the 600cc I4's because the SV has a bigger motor. The 1125 is a big twin it was also handed a butt load of restrictions to counter act the displacement issue. like Aerodynamics, tires, weight, tuning. The buell with the tire restriction alone made it so the bike could never really go WOT out of a corner like the I4's could. If you look at the results from last season there were more than one 1125 in the race but only one won, If it had such a dominate advantage why didn't the others land on the podium as well? Could Eslick Just been a damn good rider and really clicked with the bike? I could go on with other reasons but my point is The Buell was not a big over powered bully as everyone said and I'm tired of all the people that just assume Buell cheated to win when there was a whole lot more going on that no one cared to see. It just seemed that the only ones really whining about the whole thing is big 4 jap bikes . Im sure that if it was the Aprillia won it would have been the target for all the nay sayers.

Mongo Im not arguing what class it needs to be in just that it should be looked at a little more carefully than just assuming based on engine size the bike didn't belong.

Also the 1125RR is a new build and is meant for AMA Superbike. The bike itself is very different than the 1125R that was run in DSB . Now If the 1125RR wins a race did it cheat because it is over 1000cc's?

[i-man]

Ok the 1125R DSB bike was I admit was about 500cc larger but as "svmtbman" said earlier a twin will not perform the same as a I4 it just wont happen. Its like saying If you take a SV650 to the track you should be able to beat all the 600cc I4's because the SV has a bigger motor. The 1125 is a big twin it was also handed a butt load of restrictions to counter act the displacement issue. like Aerodynamics, tires, weight, tuning. The buell with the tire restriction alone made it so the bike could never really go WOT out of a corner like the I4's could. If you look at the results from last season there were more than one 1125 in the race but only one won, If it had such a dominate advantage why didn't the others land on the podium as well? Could Eslick Just been a damn good rider and really clicked with the bike? I could go on with other reasons but my point is The Buell was not a big over powered bully as everyone said and I'm tired of all the people that just assume Buell cheated to win when there was a whole lot more going on that no one cared to see. It just seemed that the only ones really whining about the whole thing is big 4 jap bikes . Im sure that if it was the Aprillia won it would have been the target for all the nay sayers.

Mongo Im not arguing what class it needs to be in just that it should be looked at a little more carefully than just assuming based on engine size the bike didn't belong.

Also the 1125RR is a new build and is meant for AMA Superbike. The bike itself is very different than the 1125R that was run in DSB . Now If the 1125RR wins a race did it cheat because it is over 1000cc's?

I do believe that he was comparing the 1125 to liter class bikes as far as not performing, hence the reason Ducati runs the 848 against the 600s and not the 1198.

You're absolutely right about the Aprilia.

IF it wins in superbike, no, it is not cheating as twins are allowed 1200 cc's in superbike. (I think that's right)

[i-man]

Hey Josh. Don't get me wrong my friend. I am not beating the Buell down. I absolutely love the 1125r and would love to see it do good in superbike.

[jkhonea]

IF it wins in superbike, no, it is not cheating as twins are allowed 1200 cc's in superbike. (I think that's right)

You are correct, that's why the Duc 1198 that Pegram is riding in AMA/DMG is allowed.

[i-man]

You are correct, that's why the Duc 1198 that Pegram is riding in AMA/DMG is allowed.

Thanks for the backup, John. :up:

[buellguy]

Thanks for not flaming me thats what you normally get when you bring up buell in a non buell board. I'm just tired of all the BS buell gets in general from the the riding world. If any of you read the May Cycle World you know Buell got a raw deal for Harley and allot of the short comings that some people love to preach about were caused by HD.

[i-man]

Thanks for not flaming me thats what you normally get when you bring up buell in a non buell board. I'm just tired of all the BS buell gets in general from the the riding world. If any of you read the May Cycle World you know Buell got a raw deal for Harley and allot of the short comings that some people love to preach about were caused by HD.

:up: Great strides were made with the 1125r. Hopefully, as soon as Eric's contract is up with HD, he will come out swinging.

[buellguy]

I would love to see this on the street in a 11 months when the non compete ends.

[TroyBoy30]

Thanks for not flaming me thats what you normally get when you bring up buell in a non buell board. I'm just tired of all the BS buell gets in general from the the riding world. If any of you read the May Cycle World you know Buell got a raw deal for Harley and allot of the short comings that some people love to preach about were caused by HD.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2010/03/23/the-demise-of-the-buell-motorcycle-company/

[Mongo]

Mongo Im not arguing what class it needs to be in just that it should be looked at a little more carefully than just assuming based on engine size the bike didn't belong.

Also the 1125RR is a new build and is meant for AMA Superbike. The bike itself is very different than the 1125R that was run in DSB . Now If the 1125RR wins a race did it cheat because it is over 1000cc's?

No one said it shouldn't be looked at carefully. After carefully looking I for one felt the bike was too fast for DSB and perfectly fine for ASB. Also I never said it was cheating as it was not, it was bad rule making, not cheating.

[Mongo]

Thanks for not flaming me thats what you normally get when you bring up buell in a non buell board. I'm just tired of all the BS buell gets in general from the the riding world. If any of you read the May Cycle World you know Buell got a raw deal for Harley and allot of the short comings that some people love to preach about were caused by HD.

How is this a "non Buell board"? Pretty sure there are people who own one of everything here. You're the one who started the entire pissing match side of things when you took offense for absolutely no reason. Try reading posts without that chip on your shoulder, especially when it's over something as stupid as motorcycle brands...

[Mongo]

I would love to see this on the street in a 11 months when the non compete ends.

You do realize that is the same bike as in the first post right? Well, the street version of the 1190 but still the same basic machine.

[mackja]

As far as the DSB series, it was equal, the twins had to carry more weight, and we all know how weight affects performance. Danny Eslick showed over the weekend that is was not just the bike, that boy can ride! Geoff May finished 12th inthe first ASB race and 10th in the second. First time out on a new bike with little time in the saddle, I think that is a great start for the EBR team. The Barracuda II was going to be 1125cc 157hp chain drive, new suspension, tail section, controls, and body work. If it ever makes it to market I am a buyer. The 1190rr is a whole different animal. Pegasus race team in Germany is fielding 2 of them this year in the SOT series. In Europe they run thier superbikes and SOT bike races at the same time. The Buell 1190rr won both of its races first time out, and came in second to the superbikes by .421 seconds. This bike has great potential, and I hope the AMA will allow it to run in ASB. We will have to wait and see. I am a bike lover all makes, models, old, new what ever, but it just drives me crazy that in this great country we can't build a sportbike. That only one guy has the vision and the guts to try. GO Erik Buell !!

[KTM Rider]

Michael Czysz had the vision and the technical expertise but lacked funding and the rules changed faster than he could develop his machine. The C1 is a BADASS bike.

[ramm]

I have a buell and I feel like I should post here. :up:

[buellguy]

Mongo : I never said this was an anti buell site I was complementing you because in general most sport bike boards all seem to have a anti buell lean and for the most part I didn't get that here. The bike at the beginning is the 1190RR is was supposed to be the race version the Barracuda II which is what I posted.and as with any race bike there is gonna be some similarities but more differences.

[mackja]

Michael Czysz had the vision and the technical expertise but lacked funding and the rules changed faster than he could develop his machine. The C1 is a BADASS bike.

The C1 was a highly adanced motorcycle, and on the cool factor off the chart, but as far as comercial and practicality of a affordable production bike it would not have happened. The engine, and chasis would be to expensive to produce, and insurance premiums would have been astronomical. One wreck and you have to replace the cabon fiber frame, how much would that cost $$$. I give him great cudos for effort. In the end totally impractical.

[KTM Rider]

So is a Desmosedici but since Ducati has the capital you can buy and ride one on the street.:up:

[SquireSCA]

Yeah, I know that, but my point remains the same. They can't do sh1t here, but can run a bike there that kicks ass. Not to mention, Max is no slouch as a rider.

On another note, I don't think the 848 should be running in the 600 class either.

Why? They are pretty close in power, and the 600 gets a whopping 25lbs weight advantage.

People always worry about CC's without really considering that it is more about what a given bike does with those CC's.

Ducati gets a 200cc advantage in WSB, but it doesn't really give it a HP or speed advantage. The Hondas, Yamahas and Aprillias seem to keep up just fine on the straights. Now, if the engine types are the same, and you let a Gixxer 750 run with the 600's, then yeah, that would be an unfair advantage.

I do agree that it was silly to let Buell run an 1125 twin with 600's, when the Ducati 1098, a smaller motor, had to run against 1000cc I4's.

[KTM Rider]

but wasnt the Buell 1125 air cooled while the 1098 was water cooled?

[SquireSCA]

but wasnt the Buell 1125 air cooled while the 1098 was water cooled?

Nope. The 1125R is a Rotax built water cooled 4 valve v-twin. I believe that Rotax used to make motors for Aprillia?

[KTM Rider]

well yeah if its water cooled and that big who ever let that in is an idiot and the fact that it lost any races just goes to show you why the japanese build a better bike

[SquireSCA]

well yeah if its water cooled and that big who ever let that in is an idiot and the fact that it lost any races just goes to show you why the japanese build a better bike

But again, they restricted it in all sorts of ways...

Buell built a literbike, and it should be racing against other literbikes just like Ducati does... The 848, there isn't a class for so it makes sense to drop it into the 600's, as they are much closer in power and weight.

[KTM Rider]

But again, they restricted it in all sorts of ways...

Buell built a literbike, and it should be racing against other literbikes just like Ducati does... The 848, there isn't a class for so it makes sense to drop it into the 600's, as they are much closer in power and weight.

Based on history, etc the 848 Ducati twin should be competitive against 750s but it isnt and there isnt a 750 class any more. Ducati used to race the 851 against 750s about 20 years ago. And then a little later the 888.

An 888 SPO would be one of the coolest Ducatis to have right now IMO.

[mackja]

Her are the offical rules for the DMG Daytona spotbike series. As you can see all things were set up to make the bikes equal.
Daytona Superbike: 600cc four-cylinder motorcycles up to 1200cc twins. The catch to this class is that bikes are imposed a power-to-weight limit. You get one horse power for every three pounds your bike weighs. If your bike weighs 360lbs (minimum class weight), then your bike's motor can put out up to 120hp. If your bike puts out 140hp (maximum class horsepower), then your bike will need to weigh at least 420lbs. If your bike of choice is a tank (think BMW), then you will be allowed to tune the engine for more horse power than a person racing a lighter motorcycle, like an R6. Bikes will be weighed and put on a dyno after the race to check their power output to make sure it meets the rules. Final qualifying will be done in a "Superpole" format like World Superbike. All bikes and aftermarket parts used in this class must be homologated and available to the public. This will keep some teams from getting special parts from the factory that others aren't even allowed to buy, no matter how much money they have (one of Michael Jordan's complaints about competing in this year's Superbike class).

Besides the power limit being an equaling factor, there will also be a spec tire for this class (like World Superbike) and spec fuel. There will also be a limit on how much testing teams can do. What this does is keep teams with larger budgets from being able to develop their bike over the season with more R&D well beyond what smaller teams could afford to do.

The bikes that will be allowed to compete in this class are:

Aprilia Tuono
BMW HP2 Sport
Buell 1125R
Ducati 848
Ducati S4R
Honda CBR600RR
Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R
KTM Super Duke
MV Brutale 910S
Suzuki GSX-R600
Triumph Daytona 675
Yamaha YZF-R6

I don't see the big deal, if it would have been an open class with no restrictions, then yes that would be unfair. A twin cannot produce the HP that a 4 cly can, and that is why twins of larger displacement can run with 4cly of smaller displacement.
It would be like running 4cly car in NASCAR, the 4 would have to be alot bigger than the 8 in order to compete. 8 cly will always produce more power than a 4 of equal displacement. More cly flow more air and fuel, psiton speed is spread over 4cly instead of 2. An air cool Buell with a redline of 7000 rpm's will have the same piston speed a 4cly 1000 at 13000 rpm's. When you look at it closly all things where equal.

[KTM Rider]

i disagree. i think the buell's power delivery and torque from its extra displacement was an advantage under the current rules. i think many others share that sentiment.

[ramm]

I'm confused what don't you agree on?

I have a 987cc bike right now. People are always like "ohh that's almost a liter bike!" etc etc...I'm like not really...I only top out at like 130, a 600cc I4 tops out much higher than that. cc's =/= the same thing on different kinds of engines.

[KTM Rider]

I dont agree that a buell 1125r is a comparable bike to race against a 600 supersport. if it had an air cooled motor then maybe but with a water cooled motor, if it only makes 600 class power and torque (110/45 at the wheel) Rotax needs to learn how to build a better engine.

[mackja]

The extra torque may be a ligit grip, but then you could say the broader power band of the 600 couters that. Buell redline is 10500 RPM, most 600 are around 14000 RPM, they also rev faster. We could go round and round on this issue, the series provided good competitive racing, and great debates. Motorcycle news USA did a test of DMG bikes, and their verdict was them bike were really equal, while they did give the nod to the Buell as the best of the bunch. What I think is more immportant is the survival of the sport, if the economy does not improve, and sportbike sales don't increase, the number of manufacturers will be reduced. The more manufaturers you can get involved better off the sport is. Let hope the next couple of years are better, so we don't loose another manufacturer.

[i-man]

Why? They are pretty close in power, and the 600 gets a whopping 25lbs weight advantage.

People always worry about CC's without really considering that it is more about what a given bike does with those CC's.

Ducati gets a 200cc advantage in WSB, but it doesn't really give it a HP or speed advantage. The Hondas, Yamahas and Aprillias seem to keep up just fine on the straights. Now, if the engine types are the same, and you let a Gixxer 750 run with the 600's, then yeah, that would be an unfair advantage.

I do agree that it was silly to let Buell run an 1125 twin with 600's, when the Ducati 1098, a smaller motor, had to run against 1000cc I4's.

I guess I am wondering why the racing sanctioning bodies keep letting the twins go up in size, but not the I4s?


Nope. The 1125R is a Rotax built water cooled 4 valve v-twin. I believe that Rotax used to make motors for Aprillia?

Yeah, they built them for Aprilia, who then raced them in WSB, against liter bikes, which is why I don't understand how they (AMA) could let Buell race against the 600s.

[i-man]

I'm confused what don't you agree on?

I have a 987cc bike right now. People are always like "ohh that's almost a liter bike!" etc etc...I'm like not really...I only top out at like 130, a 600cc I4 tops out much higher than that. cc's =/= the same thing on different kinds of engines.
Actually, it is almost a liter bike. As far as the power goes, it's air cooled vs. water cooled. An air cooled 987 cc engine is no comparison to a water cooled 987 cc engine.

[ramm]

Yeh but it doesn't perform like the "normal liter" bikes everyone thinks about when they hear liter bike. Sorry I wasn't a little more specific.

[i-man]

Yeh but it doesn't perform like the "normal liter" bikes everyone thinks about when they hear liter bike. Sorry I wasn't a little more specific.

No kidding, poor Eric was stuck for so many years using the Harley Sportster engines, which are air cooled. Then, when he finally got a real engine to use, the Rotax water cooled, Harley dropped him. Their loss. He'll be back and I am hoping he brings some serious sh1t.

[TroyBoy30]

how does a rotax 1000 compare? least I think it's a rotax! :crackup:

:stirpot:



http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll152/troyboy30/Aprilia%20Tuono%201000%20r/TuonoDynoRun10-20-09.jpg

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll152/troyboy30/Aprilia%20Tuono%201000%20r/TunoGearDynoRun10-20-09.jpg

[mackja]

I guess I am wondering why the racing sanctioning bodies keep letting the twins go up in size, but not the I4s?



Yeah, they built them for Aprilia, who then raced them in WSB, against liter bikes, which is why I don't understand how they (AMA) could let Buell race against the 600s.

Shortly before the plug was pulled, Buell released the 1125RR, which is now running in ASB, finished 10th in the 2nd race at infineon last week with Geoff May as the pilot. The original tread was about the 1190RR, which would have been eligable and may still be, to run in both WSB and ASB, this bike has 185 RWHP, and is on par with the Ducati 1198 on paper. It does not have the development time yet. So we can see what was comming down the pipe line before HD pulled the plug. The 1125R was away to get Buell racing the new bike right away, and not wait for the 1125RR and the 1190RR developement. It was detuned, and 50-60 lbs of weight was added. The Rotax built engine was designed by Buell, and durring the entire season the 1125R never had DNF in any race. Rotax builds a great engine! I know many folks who run the Aprilia on the track, and are just amazed at the duribility of the Rotax engine.

[i-man]

Shortly before the plug was pulled, Buell released the 1125RR, which is now running in ASB, finished 10th in the 2nd race at infineon last week with Geoff May as the pilot. The original tread was about the 1190RR, which would have been eligable and may still be, to run in both WSB and ASB, this bike has 185 RWHP, and is on par with the Ducati 1198 on paper. It does not have the development time yet. So we can see what was comming down the pipe line before HD pulled the plug. The 1125R was away to get Buell racing the new bike right away, and not wait for the 1125RR and the 1190RR developement. It was detuned, and 50-60 lbs of weight was added. The Rotax built engine was designed by Buell, and durring the entire season the 1125R never had DNF in any race. Rotax builds a great engine! I know many folks who run the Aprilia on the track, and are just amazed at the duribility of the Rotax engine.
Agreed.

Again, Harley cutting Eric was their loss. Can't wait to see what he has up his sleeve when his contract is up.

[mackja]

Erik was stuck using the Harley engine, but he did so much more with that motor than HD ever did. A stock sportster 1200 has about 64 crank HP, the Buell 1200 (which is a different engine) was putting up 90HP at the crank, my XB12R with drummer exhaust and race ECM has put down 103 HP and 87 ft lbs of torque, at the real wheel. No sportster will do that not even the XR1200 (90 hp at the crank, but 595lbs dry). Erik made many improvements on the XL engine, he did all he could do with the design and epa regulations. By the way they are fun as hell to ride!