First bike for my brother

[magnetnerd]

So, my brother is looking to get his first bike this summer when he's on leave. He's 19 and has ridden before - but only on the dirt, and the largest bike he rode was an 80cc.

I'm steering him in the direction of a true first streetbike (in other words, a sane one to start on). So far we've come up with the Ninja 500, Bandit 600, and maybe a full fairing GS500 as possibilities. As far as I know, he's open to more suggestions if you have them.

I'm mostly posting this for info on the aforementioned bikes. Are there any years he needs to stay away from? Any good sites for owners of these bikes? I have a B12 and frequent max-zuk, so I'm not as worried about info on the B6 as the other two.

[invader]

Katana 600.. ugly but a good starter bike.

[jlcnuke]

www.ex-500.com is a great site for the ninja 500's. I ride one and have found a ton of useful info there and the people on the forums are pretty good in general. With the ninja 500's go for 2nd gen (94+) for ease of finding parts as opposed the the 1st gen like mine. They are a bit of a pain in "grooved" highways because the tires like to follow the grooves but it's manageable. Easy to handle and forgiving yet a blast going through twisty roads.

[BlueLghtning]

Any of those smaller bikes 500cc's or less make great starting bikes. At 19 most guys still think they are invincible, so definitely keep it small so he learns proper techniques over just trying to stay alive.

[TarzanMan]

Full fairing GS500 is what I started on. Air cooled, parallel twin engine. Has a center stand. 130 or 140 rear tire
Pros: Cheap, good gas mileage, still fairly modern looking, perfect power/torque for a beginner.
Cons: Single front brake rotor , wish the headlight put out more light.

My friend learned on a Katana 600 (2000). Inline 4, 160 rear tire.
Pros: Cheap, very comfortable (even for taller riders), fuel gauge, just enough power to keep you out of trouble unless you intentionally ring it out
Cons: He will have SS-envy and squids will sneer at him as he rolls by. Not as maneuverable as a GS500 and not as powerful as a SV650.

I'd take a GS500 over the Ninja 500 for looks. When he's ready to upgrade it will be easier to get rid of a GS500 or Katana than a Bandit

[redciv1]

Katana 600.. ugly but a good starter bike.

...ummmm, I beg to differ on the ugly part...LOL.
But the Katana I will agree is a good starter bike. There were enough of them made from 1st 88-97 that finding one should not be a problem. Parts are plenty and so far, easy enough to work on.

[Derrick]

Katanas are great bikes...stable, forgiving, fairly comfy, and very reliable.

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Full fairing GS500 is what I started on. Air cooled, parallel twin engine. Has a center stand. 130 or 140 rear tire
Pros: Cheap, good gas mileage, still fairly modern looking, perfect power/torque for a beginner.
Cons: Single front brake rotor , wish the headlight put out more light.

My friend learned on a Katana 600 (2000). Inline 4, 160 rear tire.
Pros: Cheap, very comfortable (even for taller riders), fuel gauge, just enough power to keep you out of trouble unless you intentionally ring it out
Cons: He will have SS-envy and squids will sneer at him as he rolls by. Not as maneuverable as a GS500 and not as powerful as a SV650.

I'd take a GS500 over the Ninja 500 for looks. When he's ready to upgrade it will be easier to get rid of a GS500 or Katana than a Bandit

Another vote for a GS500. The engine has remained unchanged mechanically since 1989 when the bike was first introduced, so spares are cheap and plentiful. The brakes were slightly upgraded in '96 (I think). The fairing only comes on bikes from '04+ (Unless you get a custom retrofit like Kevin had). The GS has 2 (shim over bucket) valves per cylinder and is air/oil cooled, which makes it easier to work on than the ninja 500. This was a big consideration for me, since I do all my own work. It's a 130 rear tire, and while it doesn't have the "cool" factor of the 180 or 190 on SS bikes, it sure is flickable! I can agree that the F headlight could put out more light, but it's adequate. With a few cheap, easy mods, a stock gs500 becomes a flickable, light, comfortable machine that can run highway comfortably all day, or rail through the twisties with the SV650s (Or ahead of them, depending on the rider), and do it all at 50+mpg. Recommended mods(in order): New front suspension (straight rate springs from either racetech or sonic, along with heavier fork oil), New rear suspension (Katana shock is the most common swap. They're cheap, like $10 on ebay cheap. More adjustability, won't wear out as quick as the stock gs500 shock), Braided steel brake lines (at least for the front, the rubber line on the rear can actually be easier to modulate, especially for a newer rider), Exhaust/intake mods (The most common is a K&N lunchbox filter + carb rejet + any sort of slipon exhaust.. this will give about a 10% gain in HP... or about 3HP). There's information on all these mods and more available at gstwins.com/gsboard. Great board, tons of experience there, and if you can consider it, there's probably someone there who's tried it on a GS.

[bigb996]

all great bike choices....the ninja 250 is a great choice bc the resale is so great on them. When i was 19 i started on an sv650s, i had the same experience just all dirt at the time. I rode it for a few thousand miles got comfy and sold it for more than i paid for it. Get him to take the safety course, i highly recomend it.

[SlowMotion]

I'll throw in a vote for the Ninja 500. They are a solid bike and have been unchanged for several years. He can pick it up, learn on it and then sell it for as much or more then you paid for it (depending on how good of a deal you get to start with).

[Georgiacbr]

Any of those smaller bikes 500cc's or less make great starting bikes. At 19 most guys still think they are invincible, so definitely keep it small so he learns proper techniques over just trying to stay alive.


Dan is right on this. Hell I started out with a 1998 yamaha R1 and to be very honest it was way too much bike for me at the time period.Brett (Thread started)since I just got off the phone with you I would look very likely look a 250cc or 500 cc bike . Mid range power might be ideal for someone who doesn't want to deal with the hassle on updating so soon. That 500cc bike might be temping in my opinion. The 250 cc would ideally be a good choice for a new rider so they learn the power curve . MsF is highly advised in my opinion as well having done Two coarses it's a great asset to have.

Get the bike up and running damit I need someone to ride with (LOL)

[MX Tuner]

SV650. Very user friendly, versatile and relatively cheap! Plenty of proven mods, too!

[A&A Motorsports]

Either one of these ...

http://www.georgiasportbike.com/showthread.php?799-2009-Kawasaki-Ninja-250R-SPECIAL-EDITION-Extended-Warranty-!!!

http://www.georgiasportbike.com/showthread.php?1254-2008-Kawasaki-650R-only-4300-miles-2nd-owner-4-400-OBO

http://www.georgiasportbike.com/showthread.php?202-2008-Suzuki-GSX-650F-115-miles-1-Owner-Warranty-until-2011-!!!!

http://www.georgiasportbike.com/showthread.php?335-2008-Suzuki-SV650-STREET-FIGHTER-1-owner-M4-Carbon-Exhaust-amp-Much-more-4500

[Ian178]

i'd check out the drz 400 sm. My brother just got one as his first street bike. He had little experience riding anything, and it's worked out really well for him. They are really easy to ride, and a lot of fun.

[redbeard]

i'd check out the drz 400 sm. My brother just got one as his first street bike. He had little experience riding anything, and it's worked out really well for him. They are really easy to ride, and a lot of fun.

Ive not ridden a DRZ-SM but going off my DRZ-E I wouldn't recommend one to a new rider that young. There is just so much hooligan in those bikes or any SM in my opinion.

[eersfanpilot]

Get him a 1987 Honda VFR750 Interceptor, if you can find one. :)

[Ian178]

Ive not ridden a DRZ-SM but going off my DRZ-E I wouldn't recommend one to a new rider that young. There is just so much hooligan in those bikes or any SM in my opinion.

Well, i think you're wrong. The bike in question has reasonably little hp, slows down quickly without getting out of shape, and eats gravel strewn roads without a hiccup. Best combo for a beginner imho. O.P. should check them out.

Oh, and I have ridden one so..

[redbeard]

Well, i think you're wrong. The bike in question has reasonably little hp, slows down quickly without getting out of shape, and eats gravel strewn roads without a hiccup. Best combo for a beginner imho. O.P. should check them out.

Oh, and I have ridden one so..

your right they dont have lots of power but they can do wheelies (in more than just 1st gear) and stoppies all day long, If I was 19 and had a bike like that I would be trying to do wheelies and stoppies all day long! Compared to 500's they are a whole different animal.

[MX Tuner]

Not to mention they aren't very comfortable for any length of time- the seat on a dusl sport bike is geared more for off-road. Plus, they can be pretty tall for someone who isn't 6' tall.

[Zippo475]

I started at 17 years old on my 2005 ZX6R <.<

[redbeard]

Not to mention they aren't very comfortable for any length of time- the seat on a dusl sport bike is geared more for off-road. Plus, they can be pretty tall for someone who isn't 6' tall.

I was thinking the same thing about it not being comfortable but on mine Im standing as much as sitting so I didnt know for sure. And the seat height is crazy high on the E and S model DRZ's but I think the SM has a lower seat height from its road only suspension. I know it has less fork travel at least. At 5'10 the offroad ones are really too tall for me and I just try and get by.


I started at 17 years old on my 2005 ZX6R <.<

Nobody is saying you cant start on the racier bikes, just not many people suggesting someone go that route. I've seen a 16 year old with a Viper as his first car. I never heard about him wrecking it but I still dont think that was a good idea and Id never suggest it as a first.

[patri0t]

Personnally I'd start out with a racier bike. The reason being is that once he gets comfortable on the bike (which won't be long), he'll be looking to upgrade. I doubt after spending several thousand dollars on a "starter" bike that he'll want to spend another several thousand on a another bike and he'll kick himself for not getting the racier bike to begin with. I know people argue about having too much power to start out with, but I believe that if the rider respects his equipment and learns to use the throttle properly (after all this is what can get you in trouble), then a 600 or better would be fine. The bike will not go any faster than what the rider dictates. Wear proper equipment and ride on quieter roadways for a while to get comfotrable on the machine.

I started 2 years ago street riding on a ZX6R and I'm already looking to upgrade...

Just my two cents.

[redbeard]

Personnally I'd start out with a racier bike. The reason being is that once he gets comfortable on the bike (which won't be long), he'll be looking to upgrade. I doubt after spending several thousand dollars on a "starter" bike that he'll want to spend another several thousand on a another bike and he'll kick himself for not getting the racier bike to begin with. I know people argue about having too much power to start out with, but I believe that if the rider respects his equipment and learns to use the throttle properly (after all this is what can get you in trouble), then a 600 or better would be fine. The bike will not go any faster than what the rider dictates. Wear proper equipment and ride on quieter roadways for a while to get comfotrable on the machine.



I started 2 years ago street riding on a ZX6R and I'm already looking to upgrade...

Just my two cents.

I dont know the prices on the 500's but from what the other guys here are saying if you buy one used you can usually sell it for close to what you have in it. In other words you dont lose thousands of dollars when you want another bike, Instead have a nice down payment from the sale of it!

[jlcnuke]

Personnally I'd start out with a racier bike. The reason being is that once he gets comfortable on the bike (which won't be long), he'll be looking to upgrade. I doubt after spending several thousand dollars on a "starter" bike that he'll want to spend another several thousand on a another bike and he'll kick himself for not getting the racier bike to begin with. I know people argue about having too much power to start out with, but I believe that if the rider respects his equipment and learns to use the throttle properly (after all this is what can get you in trouble), then a 600 or better would be fine. The bike will not go any faster than what the rider dictates. Wear proper equipment and ride on quieter roadways for a while to get comfotrable on the machine.

I started 2 years ago street riding on a ZX6R and I'm already looking to upgrade...

Just my two cents.

Great... now I have to post my "standard new rider" thread response:
"I see lots of threads pop up questioning whether they should get X bike for someone's first bike and so I figured I'd just make this post to give my opinion on a first bike (having recently (<1 year ago) bought my first bike.

First: Buy used unless you have money to throw away (literally). Remember learning to ride a bicycle? Ever fall down or drop it? Did it cost you 100's to 1000's of dollars to fix it? A motorcycle can and you're almost as likely to drop your first bike. Sayings are based off of common sense from people who have been there, done that. The saying is "There are 2 types of riders, those that have gone down and those that will go down." As with all things there are exceptions, but do you want to gamble $1000+ buck on it?

Second: No supersports or supersports or supersports. Yes you are a 6'10", 350lb body builder but no, you don't need 100hp. Don't believe me? A ninja 500 weighs 409lbs and gives 59 horsepower. Compared to a civic that weighs 2600+lbs and gives 140hp. If you weigh 350lbs the ninja gives you a power to weight ratio of .077 while the honda gives you .047. That's almost double the power to weight ratio with a lot less protection. Go to a 600cc supersport like the ZX-6 with 113hp and only 454lbs and you have ~4x the power to weight ratio of the civic in something with almost none of the safety features.

Third: No supersports. Yes you are the most cautious person in the world and drive at the speed limit all the time but no, you probably won't be just fine. Some companies specifically state that their supersport lines are only for experienced riders. Why? A little too much throttle on a beginner bike (250/500cc ninja or similar) will get your heart pumping a bit. A little too much throttle on a supersport and you're likely to end up on one wheel before you've mastered riding on 2, or worse. Google first bike accident if you want video proof, you'll see plenty of first timers going down on a 600cc or liter bike.

Fourth: Sit on bikes. Sit on a lot of bikes. Sit on a lot of bikes for a decent amount of time. Consider your bike comfort level like buying a new couch. It's great to buy the nicest looking couch in the world but if 2 days later you realize it's not comfortable sitting on it then it's just a really big paperweight.

Fifth: Take the MSF course. You get to learn the basics and actually ride a motorcycle you didn't have to pay for. Tons of people love riding, but you can't be sure until you've done it. Riding during the course will either make you itch to be riding again soon or convince you it's not for you. Plenty of people each year drop out of the MSF course after deciding they really don't want to ride. Don't buy a bike before you know you DO want to ride.

Sixth: Your first bike is your first bike not likely your last. Buy used and cheap. There are enough starter bikes for sale at any time that you can almost guarantee that you'll lose next to nothing when you sell it for the next bike (get a good deal and you may make money on it).

Seventh: Gear. It's more important than your bike. I spent more on gear before I bought my bike than I did on the bike. It's worth it. Don't believe me? Google "road rash queen" and learn the story of what no gear can do for you.

Eighth: Ride your ride. If you ride at 100% of your skill/comfort level it's only a matter of time before you run into something that requires 10% more skill than you have to handle. My friend told me (plenty of times..) that the only way to get used to riding in rush hour was to just do it. I disagreed and slowly worked up from saturday morning rides with no traffic. Never riding in a situation I wasn't comfortable in.

Ninth: MSF and Gear, important enough to be mentioned again.

Most importantly, ride safe and have fun."

When I was looking to start riding I checked youtube (exact search terms not in there) and the overwhelming majority of first time riders dropping a bike were riding supersports. One of the reasons I went for a less "sexy" ride. Been over a year since I first took a bike out now and my 500 still has more power than I've utilized. If you're not heading to the track or looking to become a stunt rider then the odds of someone ever riding a ninja 500 or similar to the max of it's ability is slim to none (outside of hitting top speed while violating the super-speeder law). Keep in mind, the ninja 500 when ridden by talented riders has beat out some 600's and 650's at track days, it's not exactly a "timid" bike in and of itself when the rider learns it:
ninja 250 being chased for a bit on a track race:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDkdowIPYxU
drag against a 600:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6j_Ur7CmMU
tracking against a 636 (beaten only in the straightaway):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XA38M1Tpk

Only those willing to move on to "bigger and better" before they've managed to figure out how to really ride a 500 could realistically call it "weak."
I could go on,

[patri0t]

jlcnuke,

I agree with the majority of your thread. Especially points 4 through 9. The MSF course is probably the best thing that I ever did since owning my bike. I learned a ton!

Your other point are valid as well, but to me points 1 through 3 "no supersport" are over cautious (I'm a thrill junkie, so maybe I'm biased). If you are timid of power ratios then just don't buy any bike period, stick with the civic. I'd argue that when it comes to motorcycle crashes and fatalities, it wasn't the power that caused the incident, rather negligence on the part of the rider, riding stupid, or getting smacked by another vehicle.

Also, the last point that you make with the youtube links, in my opinion me contradict points 1 through 3. You point out that they have so much less power than a sportbike, yet you then show them keeping up or beating the supersports... obviously track bikes are setup different with gear ratios and weight distribution, etc, but nontheless, to point out the "slower" bike beating the "faster" bike??

I'm not trying to slam your post so please don't get offended, but I just believe in the rider getting what the rider wants... it is their $$. Just follow points 4 through 9.

[jlcnuke]

jlcnuke,

I agree with the majority of your thread. Especially points 4 through 9. The MSF course is probably the best thing that I ever did since owning my bike. I learned a ton!

Your other point are valid as well, but to me points 1 through 3 "no supersport" are over cautious (I'm a thrill junkie, so maybe I'm biased). If you are timid of power ratios then just don't buy any bike period, stick with the civic. I'd argue that when it comes to motorcycle crashes and fatalities, it wasn't the power that caused the incident, rather negligence on the part of the rider, riding stupid, or getting smacked by another vehicle.

Also, the last point that you make with the youtube links, in my opinion me contradict points 1 through 3. You point out that they have so much less power than a sportbike, yet you then show them keeping up or beating the supersports... obviously track bikes are setup different with gear ratios and weight distribution, etc, but nontheless, to point out the "slower" bike beating the "faster" bike??

I'm not trying to slam your post so please don't get offended, but I just believe in the rider getting what the rider wants... it is their $$. Just follow points 4 through 9.

First I'm going to give a disclaimer, I've been drinking heavily (allergies around here suck btw) so I'm reserving the right to edit this post tomorrow but I'll try now to address your concerns with my particular advice/reasoning.

As for the portion I bolded in your quote I would say that negligence is not necessarily the wrong word but inexperience may be a better word. The "negligence" of a lot of inexperienced riders stems from having an understanding of how to "drive" a car instead of a bike imo. I was, to be frank, exceptionally scared of motorcycles for most of my life (having known professional riders crippled or killed on them, including motorcycle police officers). The point I was trying to make with the videos and power to weight ratios was that the argument about "outgrowing" a 500cc bike is really more a "outgrowing the perception" of the bikes. Meaning most riders don't actually learn to ride the bike to it's potential, they merely get the basics down and move onto a more dangerous machine.

We all know that riding has inherent danger, that's why most of us wear gear and take courses to make us better and safer riders (whether MSF or STT etc). We minimize our risks with those things as well as flashy/bright gear and try to make ourselves seen by the cagers. The videos I posted were mostly to show that while a GSXR may be a bit more sexy, and may have more "get up and go," the smaller bikes are still fast, maneuverable and provide plenty of enjoyment at a fraction of the cost while adding in the safety factor of allowing us to attempt to get good at something before attempting to use the masters equipment. Grabbing a CBR600 or liter bike to start with is akin to (in my mind) teaching someone sword fighting with the sharpest sword you can find and no protection instead of a fencing sword and suit. Maximize penalties with no increased margin of error without minimizing damages for errors.

A co-worker with riding experience bought a bike last year, took it to the N. GA. mountain runs and returned letting me know how much fun he had.. never leaving 2nd gear. Extra power doesn't always mean more fun, sometime is just means extra danger. I've been considering taking my "little" 500 out to the track just to increase my skills with it, whether I can be faster on a lap time than anyone or not. I'm fairly sure on a track, with some practice, I could outperform anything I could legally pull off on the streets (and probably some things I couldn't legally do on the streets).

My next bike will probably be a sport tourer just so that I can be more comfortable on longer rides. Twisties for me are fun. Speed is just a number though and that is where the supersports excel beyond the "beginner" bikes like mine.

[patri0t]

Touche! Well put.

I too plan to get my bike on the track this summer (I live about 5 miles from Roebling Roads Raceway) after joining up with NESBA. I know several riders that have raced or currently race this track and they all have explained that any rider will gain so much knowledge and awareness of their machine after running a road course. One of these guys actually stopped riding road tracks and now goes for adventure and touring. After listening to his stories and time spent on the road, I think that your purchase of the sport tour is a wise decision. :up:


I've been drinking heavily (allergies around here suck btw)

You drink to cure allergies?? :beer:

http://www.roeblingroad.com/

[TarzanMan]

Unfortunately for your theory, power isn't the only problem with a *racer* bike. Riding position and handling are complicating factors with a supersport...especially with the 180mm rear tires that go on the back of them. You can change direction on a GS500 (to avoid an obstacle) a lot more easily without needing nearly as much proper technique as a 600RR.

You'll learn faster and be a better rider on a newbie-friendly bike than on a supersport. That's a fact.




Personnally I'd start out with a racier bike. The reason being is that once he gets comfortable on the bike (which won't be long), he'll be looking to upgrade. I doubt after spending several thousand dollars on a "starter" bike that he'll want to spend another several thousand on a another bike and he'll kick himself for not getting the racier bike to begin with. I know people argue about having too much power to start out with, but I believe that if the rider respects his equipment and learns to use the throttle properly (after all this is what can get you in trouble), then a 600 or better would be fine. The bike will not go any faster than what the rider dictates. Wear proper equipment and ride on quieter roadways for a while to get comfotrable on the machine.

I started 2 years ago street riding on a ZX6R and I'm already looking to upgrade...

Just my two cents.

[BlueLghtning]

Unfortunately for your theory, power isn't the only problem with a *racer* bike. Riding position and handling are complicating factors with a supersport...especially with the 180mm rear tires that go on the back of them. You can change direction on a GS500 (to avoid an obstacle) a lot more easily without needing nearly as much proper technique as a 600RR.

You'll learn faster and be a better rider on a newbie-friendly bike than on a supersport. That's a fact.

+1. Why people don't get this is beyond me.

SS600's handle great and are some awesome pieces of fine machinery, but learning how to ride one isn't natural to hardly anyone. You do so much better on a smaller and more forgiving bike that allows you to make mistakes and survive them. Then when you move up to that SS600 dream bike, you have a strong foundation of skills to build on.

Airline pilots don't go out and learn how to fly in the most up to date and powerful aircrafts. They learn in easy going and very forgiving airplanes before moving up to faster and more maneuverable airplanes.

[Derrick]

IMO, for many people, particularly the younger folks, so much of the decision to become a motorcyclist and what motorcycle to ride is based on personal expression, cool factor, look at me and my hot bike, etc.

Intelligent and rational suggestions from seasoned riders along with real world examples you would think would be plenty enough to direct someone's choice of bikes. But, alas...

[Killen]

For what it's worth, I just switched over to a 600 after over two years on a 250 and the MSF class, and I've had a couple of accidental fishtails in the last month from rolling just a fraction of an inch too much on the throttle. No biggie, but little things like that happen fairly easily and a newer rider shouldn't be asked to deal with that kind of input sensitivity. A lot of people have managed to start out and learn with too much machine, but I really don't see the harm in riding a tame bike for a few months and then putting it back on the market. You'll generally spend 1-2k, get that money back when you turn around and resell it, and probably not even spend the money changing the oil :p

To me, jumping onto a supersport for a first bike seems telling that the rider's concern is more about being seen than enjoying the ride. Just about any street bike is going to feel fast at first. Address "getting bored" when you "get bored", not sooner. :)

[chris]

I have 6k miles (mostly mtn riding) on my 250. I still have times (fewer than last year) that I chop the throttle or stand the bike up in a corner... on any other bike including a 650 would have led to a crash. After I do something stupid on my 250 I beat myself up mentally instead of the mtn side doing it for me.

Just saying...

[redbeard]

IMO, for many people, particularly the younger folks, so much of the decision to become a motorcyclist and what motorcycle to ride is based on personal expression, cool factor, look at me and my hot bike, etc.

Intelligent and rational suggestions from seasoned riders along with real world examples you would think would be plenty enough to direct someone's choice of bikes. But, alas...

The reason I bought my first bike was to impress a girl! Myself and the girl didnt work out but the bikes stuck

[Derrick]

The reason I bought my first bike was to impress a girl! Myself and the girl didnt work out but the bikes stuck
I guess it didn't impress her...lol..j/k

[redbeard]

I guess it didn't impress her...lol..j/k

I should have just realized she was a whore and it didnt take much! Kept the bike got rid of the girl

[Renzo R6 Diablo]

a 600 is a good start bike

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

a 600 is a good start bike


Oh, gee, thanks for that nugget of wisdom, 3 months later. Welcome back. :lol:

[Killen]

Smells like troll.

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Smells like troll.

Nope. I remember him from before the crash. Not a troll, just thinks like one.

[magnetnerd]

Oh, he got a Bandit 600 and loves it.

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Oh, he got a Bandit 600 and loves it.


Sweet! Glad to hear he didn't get a SS. Make sure to teach him the ways of the Force!

[magnetnerd]

We both agreed that a SS would be a poor choice for a first bike. He's doing it right, he did the MSF course and got full gear (boots, overpants, jacket, gloves, lid) and started riding when it wasn't busy out.