Is quality of gas getting worse?

[nhs]

Been having some unusual stalling issues with my still-under-warranty-and-properly-serviced R6. 4 times in the past week it's stalled while coming to a stop, with the clutch pulled. It starts up fine after I turn the ignition off and then on again, but sometimes splutters a bit while coming to a stop. Idle RPMs are within guidelines.

Took it the dealer today who advised me that it's probably due to bad gas - either water in the gasoline, or "too much" ethanol. Apparently that, combined with heat, is affecting higher performance sport bikes particularly badly currently (they cited a number of examples). They adjusted the idle up a bit (just to make me feel better) and poured some blue stuff into the tank that's advertised as "cures ethanol". Bike purred like a kitten on the way home - which was relatively short. But it didn't seem to get bogged down like it has of late. It felt like the blue stuff worked.

When I got home I thought about it some more. Started wondering whether I'd experienced something similar in my car. Nothing came to mind for my wife's SUV, but I then remembered that my car has felt like it was almost about to stall on two occassions lately - for the first time ever. It's a fairly high revving inline 6 - not entirely dissimilar to my R6 in mission.

So, all this has made me wonder whether gasoline is indeed worsening in quality (perhaps due to cheap ethanol diluting its effect), whether I've just had a bit of bad luck in choice of gas recently (I tend to use Chevron), or whether I'm just imaging things and there's really something else going on.

Thoughts?

[Todd]

there's been ALOT of stuff going on with the ethanol thing in gas. Alot as in, ALOT of people bitching about performance and fuel economy going into the shitter as a result of the ethanol.

[BlueLghtning]

So does the EPA really still think Ethanol solves more issues then it causes and is better for the environment? Vehicles get worse fuel mileage, so they burn more fuel, we have a food product being used for fuel, and now as time goes on, more and more vehicles are showing issues from ethanol.

[Lazarus]

I stalled out twice a week or so again. Thought maybe it was be of the heat and traffic.

[Ian178]

So does the EPA really still think Ethanol solves more issues then it causes and is better for the environment? Vehicles get worse fuel mileage, so they burn more fuel, we have a food product being used for fuel, and now as time goes on, more and more vehicles are showing issues from ethanol.

Your post implies that the EPA's policies are based on logic. This is a grave mistake, unless you are looking at ulterior motives.

[BlueLghtning]

Your post implies that the EPA's policies are based on logic. This is a grave mistake, unless you are looking at ulterior motives.

You got a good point. I don't think anyone in the gov actually uses logic anymore.

[ga_skyline_rydr]

Are flex fuel vehicles prone to this much trouble. I just bought a brand new Crown Vic which has the capability of flex fuel. So I am wondering what to expect. My fazer hasn't exhibited any trouble yet.

[Todd]

From what ive been told, the cars actually designed for flex fuel arent having "trouble" but their fuel economy is not on par with what if would be if it were designed for straight out gas. I think the biggest bitch is the fact that (and this gets more into the LEPR side) the govt. is pushing this to help keep the farmers working. But at what expense? :rolleyes:
Are flex fuel vehicles prone to this much trouble. I just bought a brand new Crown Vic which has the capability of flex fuel. So I am wondering what to expect. My fazer hasn't exhibited any trouble yet.

[MX Tuner]

So does the EPA really still think Ethanol solves more issues then it causes and is better for the environment?

The govt never said it would help with any issues. Its like hamburger helper for gas. It has about 30% less heat energy than gasoline. Most of the current fuel injection systems are designed to operate on "up to" 10% ethanol. We had a tester that measured the ethanol content in the fuel. We commonly found it over 11% and 12% in cars with running problems. Current maximum ethanol levels are *supposed* to be no greater than 10%. The EPA is pushing to get it raised to 15%. Their logic is the current genrations of engines will drive jsut fine with teh extra 5% ethanol content.

Flex Fuel vehicles have the ability to adjust their injection duration and ignition timing to compensate for the different fuels. To get the same fuel range as their gasoline counterpart, they have to have a fuel tank 30% larger.

Chevron isn't known for their high quality gasoline. Quik Trip actually monitors their gasolines very closely and is my choice whenever reasonably possible.

[MotoMike]

Yeah, this ethanol thing is crazy. Here's a good example, last year my 12yo push mower wouldn't crank at beginning of cutting season. So's after insuring the plug is good and the air filter clean, I pulled off the carb, blew outh the lines, took what looked like the metering jet out of it, cleaned it up some and put it all back together. Mower cranks good, seems to run good, BUT in fiddling with the govenor on it, I think the engine may have over revved some(which I hear is really not good for a 4 cycle Tecumseh) but it still runs ok enough for me to use but I sometimes can smell the exhaust from it which I never did before. So is this ethanol helping with the emissions from this engine? I THINK NOT!! Thank you EPA!

[nhs]

Looked up the name of the "blue stuff" the dealer poured into the tank - it's called Star Tron. Their website includes quite a bit of detail on E10 and its affect on engines... Also found other sites confirming that E10 fuel can cause stalling. Just great. http://mystarbrite.com/startron//content/view/91/120/lang,en/

[eersfanpilot]

I am not sure how it is in the auto gas world but when I was an airport manager dealing with ordering, stocking, and testing aviation fuel on a daily basis I found out that most airports have self imposed regulations regarding fuel handling. There was not enforcement if you decided to pump crap fuel into some airplane. Speaking strictly from an aviation standpoint JetA and 100LL only have a good 6 month "shelf life". If you are using gas stations that constantly have lower prices and less than normal traffic, they may not be pumping enough fuel to replenish their supply as often as they need to. I also found that with JetA fuels are effected by the metal that the fuel tanks, pipes, and pumps are made out of. It is not recommended to have anything other than black pipe or carbon fiber. Stainless steel, and other metals, effect the combustibility of the JetA fuel causing it to burn incorrectly.

Again, I know this is apples and oranges when it comes to fuels, but I would be surprised if some of these factors do not effect auto gas the same way it does aviation fuel. After having to restructure an entire airports fuel handling, servicing equipment, and storage procedures I can honestly say I go to name brand, high traffic, auto gas stations now and have not had a problem with the fuels I received from them. Maybe someone who currently works or has worked at a gas station can share some knowledge about the fuel handling, storage procedures, and quality control for auto gas?

[wallypiper]

Chevron isn't known for their high quality gasoline. Quik Trip actually monitors their gasolines very closely and is my choice whenever reasonably possible.

All of the gasoline sold in Atlanta arrives here via two pipelines. Regardless of what station you buy it from, the gas was originally delivered here as a "generic" product and might have been produced by any of many refineries that feed the pipelines from the gulf coast. Once it gets here, distributors may put additives in it that are specific to their brand but the basic fuel is the same for all of them. Turnover is important but most stations only have a few days worth in the ground at any one time. I worry most about cheaters - stations that might put water in the tanks or something. I don't really know that anybody does that but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the cheap ones do it. I've been sticking mostly with Shell in the bike lately, and mostly from one of two stations that are on my normal commuting route. I don't know that their gas is better but by sticking to those two sources, I can find out.

[nhs]

I use Chevron for two reasons, being (a) they use Techron as an additive, which I hear really works to maintain a clean engine, and (b) there's a big, well-maintained one close to where I live. But I'm going to try Shell for a while, or maybe even QT given the above post. A clean engine's not worth much if it keeps stalling. Will see if that makes a difference.

[Bryce]

TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:

QuikTrip
Chevron
Texaco
MFA Oil Co.
Conoco
Phillips 66
76
Entec Stations
Shell
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Kwik Trip / Kwik Star
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Co.
Turkey Hill Minit Markets
Mileage Stations
Road Ranger
CountryMark
Chevron Canada
Shell Canada
Petro-Canada
Sunoco Canada


From toptiergas.com

[nhs]

Well, I gotta say... kinda surprised to see Turkey Hill Minit Markets on that list, and not BP...

[signguy]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80611627/

[MX Tuner]

Top tier rated fuels were supposed to be exactly that- top tier. It obviously doesn't take much to be rated "top tier". Not a very good endorsement. Even if it were top tier rated doesn't mean it has the advertised amounts of ethanol.

[TarzanMan]

As far as I know, ethanol as an additive is a replacement for MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether), which was starting to show up in ground water.