Don't Taze my granny

[MrBlah]

we have not had an abuse of taser thread for a while, I've been biting my tongue as there's been at least 4 more in the news lately, but this one was too much to bare

They tasered her twice, deprived her of oxygen, handcuffed her, incarcerated her for psyc evaluation, and had the kid in the back of a squad car

The manufacturers call it a less-lethal device, and there have been a few deaths as a consequence of its use, twice on a bedridden old lady on oxygen is at best stupid, probably criminal


http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/24/28330.htm


(CN) - Police Tasered an 86-year-old disabled grandma in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she couldn't breathe, after her grandson called 911 seeking medical assistance, the woman and her grandson claim in Oklahoma City Federal Court. Though the grandson said, "Don't Taze my granny!" an El Reno police officer told another cop to "Taser her!" and wrote in his police report that he did so because the old woman "took a more aggressive posture in her bed," according to the complaint.
Lonnie Tinsley claims that he called 911 after he went to check on his grandmother, whom he found in her bed, "connected to a portable oxygen concentrator with a long hose." She is "in marginal health, [and] takes several prescribed medications daily," and "was unable to tell him exactly when she had taken her meds," so, Tinsley says, he called 911 "to ask for an emergency medical technician to come to her apartment to evaluate her."
In response, "as many as ten El Reno police" officers "pushed their way through the door," according to the complaint.
The grandma, Lona Varner, "told them to get out of her apartment."
The remarkable complaint continues: "Instead, the apparent leader of the police [defendant Thomas Duran] instructed another policeman to 'Taser her!' He stated in his report that the 86 year-old plaintiff 'took a more aggressive posture in her bed,' and that he was fearful for his safety and the safety of others.
"Lonnie Tinsley told them, 'Don't taze my Granny!' to which they responded that they would Taser him; instead, they pulled him out of her apartment, took him down to the floor, handcuffed him and placed him in the back of a police car.
"The police then proceeded to approach Ms. Varner in her bed and stepped on her oxygen hose until she began to suffer oxygen deprivation.
"The police then fired a Taser at her and only one wire struck her, in the left arm; the police then fired a second Taser, striking her to the right and left of the midline of her upper chest and applied high voltage, causing burns to her chest, extreme pain and to pass out.
"The police then grabbed Ms. Varner by her forearms and jerked hands together, causing her soft flesh to tear and bleed on her bed; they then handcuffed her.
"The police freed Lonnie Tinsley from his incarceration in the back of the police car and permitted him to accompany the ambulance with his grandmother."
Tinsley says the cops capped it all off by having his grandmother "placed in the psychiatric ward at the direction of the El Reno police; she was held there for six days and released."
"As a result of the wrongful arrest and detention, the plaintiff Lona M. Varner suffered the unlawful restraint of her freedom, bodily injury, assault, battery, the trashing of her apartment, humiliation, loss of personal dignity, infliction of emotional distress and medical bills."
They seek punitive damages for constitutional violations, from the City of El Reno, Duran, Officers Frank Tinga and Joseph Sandberg, and 10 Officers Does.
They are represented by Brian Dell of Oklahoma City.


http://www.allgov.com/Images/eouploader.4cdbd30a-ef33-494d-9c10-a32e4cef83e2.1.data.jpg

maybe they cut off her o2 because they knew it could ignite ? :LOL:

[Mongo]

Yeah, 10 cops all got together and on the way to her house decided to beat up an 86 year old lady.... Why is it I find the grandsons version a wee bit hard to believe?

[MrBlah]

there's more to the story, but tasing is inappropriate on a bedridden 86 year old lady

[Mongo]

Sorry but not being there you can't determine that. Good try though.

[BlueLghtning]

There's another version of this story out there that says the grandma has a knife and that was the aggressive part that is left in this one.

[BlueLghtning]

Here it is - http://newsok.com/oklahoma-granny-gets-shocked-by-taser-sues-el-reno-police/article/3471297?custom_click=masthead_topten#ixzz0rvS2lCRZ


Police have admitted using a Taser to incapacitate the suicidal woman Dec. 22. Officer Duran wrote in a police report she pulled a kitchen knife from under her pillow and threatened to kill him. "I tried talking to Varner and calm her down but nothing would work," he reported.

The officer reported she took "a more aggressive posture on the bed" when other officers arrived. He reported she raised the knife above her head and said, "If you come any closer, you're getting the knife." He reported he feared she would injure someone.

[Mongo]

Huh, imagine that. She was armed. Guess they could have hit her with a baton or asp breaking a bunch of bones until she let go of it. Yeah, that would have been much safer and better for her in the long run. Old people heal so well after all.

[Mongo]

BTW Blah - this is yet another example of why I keep saying you need to do more research before posting...

[MrBlah]

I knew she was armed, I said there's more to the story, I was baiting

[Mongo]

So you want people to think you're an idiot and a troll? Interesting ploy for attention, guess it's working for you so far.

[MrBlah]

no, I want to talk about police overusing tasers, I choose to leave out some of the details, if people cared they would look it up, I'm surprised how quick that happened

instead of attacking me, lets talk taser abuse, 87 with a knife is no place for a taser IMO

I know that's hard for you, you never talk the issue, you simply attack me

[wbeck257]

When my granny gets all riled up I just shoot her with an airsoft rifle..

[Spicoli]

Waiting for TarzanMan on this one...

[Mongo]

no, I want to talk about police overusing tasers, I choose to leave out some of the details, if people cared they would look it up, I'm surprised how quick that happened

instead of attacking me, lets talk taser abuse, 87 with a knife is no place for a taser IMO

I know that's hard for you, you never talk the issue, you simply attack me

I attack you because you are the issue. The cops using the least dangerous method to subdue her is not the issue here. You lying to try and "prove" something is the point. You lied by omission. You're a troll and a liar - that immediately makes any point you try to bring up suspect, because of YOU, because of YOUR actions. You have made it about you... Congrats since that can be the only reason for your actions. It sure as hell wasn't about the tazers otherwise you'd have presented all of the facts you knew.

[MrBlah]

I luv mongo

[TarzanMan]

Waiting for TarzanMan on this one...

There is no reason to tase a grandma if there is a flight of stairs within 10 yards.

Everyone knows that pushing old people down stairs is the only social acceptable way to physically harm them.

[Mongo]

There is no reason to tase a grandma if there is a flight of stairs within 10 yards.

Everyone knows that pushing old people down stairs is the only social acceptable way to physically harm them.

Damn good point.

[KTM Rider]

he did tell me that my troll powers were weak

i guess it takes one to know one:lol:

[MrBlah]

please dont turn yet another thread into personal attacks, it's getting old, and I think the mods just gave warnings for that

[KTM Rider]

its not me doing it:lol:

[Mongo]

please dont turn yet another thread into personal attacks, it's getting old, and I think the mods just gave warnings for that

Again - YOU are the one who is an admitted troll, that makes your posts about you.

[MrBlah]

how bout we stick to talking about tasers, is that so hard?

[Mongo]

What's the point? You didn't post anything fully factual about tasers. Try that next time, is that so hard?

[Hammerhead]

how bout we stick to talking about tasers, is that so hard?

Some people just can't be subdued bare handed. The cops had better have a damned good reason for shooting someone so tasers seem to be the only other alternative. What else can they do? Start using tranquilizer darts?

[MrBlah]

Some people just can't be subdued bare handed. The cops had better have a damned good reason for shooting someone so tasers seem to be the only other alternative. What else can they do? Start using tranquilizer darts?

I bet most of us from LEPR, even though untrained in police tactics, and probably disarm/subdue an 87 year old woman on oxygen. Put 10 of us together, and I think we really could pull it off.

[Mongo]

I bet most of us from LEPR, even though untrained in police tactics, and probably disarm/subdue an 87 year old woman on oxygen. Put 10 of us together, and I think we really could pull it off.

Without hurting her? No.

[MrBlah]

how did they do it before tasers, surely they would not have shot her?

[Hammerhead]

I bet most of us from LEPR, even though untrained in police tactics, and probably disarm/subdue an 87 year old woman on oxygen. Put 10 of us together, and I think we really could pull it off.

I'll admit that this case seems more than a little ****ed up but I see people belly aching all the time when a young male dies after being tazed. Again, in an instance such as that, what's the alternative?

[Mongo]

how did they do it before tasers, surely they would not have shot her?

No, she would have been injured more.

[Mongo]

So blah, would you rather they use a baton or asp as in my very first response to this? Yes or no would be sufficient.

[MrBlah]

neither, an angry 87 year old lady is not a threat to police unless she was a ninja when younger, or had a firearm, she should have been talked down to a calm level

[TarzanMan]

Put her in a rear naked choke and make that granny tap out, MMA style!

[Mongo]

neither, an angry 87 year old lady is not a threat to police unless she was a ninja when younger, or had a firearm, she should have been talked down to a calm level

No, anyone with a knife is a danger to themselves and others when they are brandishing it, especially if she was getting aggressive Now how would you take it from an 87 year old without hurting her? You disagree with the police, now tell me how they should have handled it.

[MrBlah]

already told you, same way they did it before tasers, they talked people down before they assaulted them

[Mongo]

already told you, same way they did it before tasers, they talked people down before they assaulted them

Talking didn't work - so what would you have them do? Back in the old days they did a lot of things instead of talking when a subject was armed and agitated. Which if those is better than the taser?

[Mongo]

So you say the cops were wrong yet don't have any idea what they could have done instead? Poor sad little troll blah.

[KTM Rider]

Poor sad little troll blah.

:lol:

[MrBlah]

So you say the cops were wrong yet don't have any idea what they could have done instead? Poor sad little troll blah.

I already told you, do you want me to repeat myself again?

[Lazarus]

The point isn't could they have subdued her with their hands. Yes they could have BUT what would the injures have been to not only grandma but the police as well? I'm sure she would have sent 1 or 2 to the ER with her had they tried to wrestle her down. My issue isn't with the tasing as much as it is with why did 10 LEOs show up to her apartment? Why did any show up? I'm sure some sort of recompense will come grandmas way.

[Mongo]

I already told you, do you want me to repeat myself again?

You've danced around the answer, you have not answered.

[winmutt]

rear naked

You just want to donkey punch her.

[Back Marker]

why were the cops trying to subdue someone that is already subdued? granny can't out of her bed, so knife wielding is no danger. why didn't the cops leave when they were no longer needed? that's called trespassing. if granny was able to get out of bed and actually use the knife, that would be a threat.

-a|ex

[Mongo]

The grandson told 911 she was suicidal - while I think the cops should be allowed to let her kill herself I know they're not allowed to do so. They had no choice but to take the knife away.

[winmutt]

The best reply I've heard on this yet.

"If I was the cop I would be completely embarrassed by missing a bed ridden granny with the taser the first time"

LOL

[G_MAN]

The best reply I've heard on this yet.

"If I was the cop I would be completely embarrassed by missing a bed ridden granny with the taser the first time"

LOL

:lol:

[Mongo]

So troll, still haven't figured out what they cops did back in the day that you would prefer to have been used on this woman?

[jkhonea]

The grandson told 911 she was suicidal - while I think the cops should be allowed to let her kill herself I know they're not allowed to do so. They had no choice but to take the knife away.

And I'm sorry, but if someone has a knife, I don't give a damn who they are, if the threat of them hitting me with the knife is nullified by a taser than so be it, that's gonna happen. Don't care how damn old they are. Last I checked, knives didn't have a concern about the age of their holder when they slice your ass open.

[Karl Hungus]

Last I checked, knives didn't have a concern about the age of their holder when they slice your ass open.

Just think how many chickens Granny has cut up with that knife. My abdomen would be like a pound cake to her. Zap Granny.

[jkhonea]

Just think how many chickens Granny has cut up with that knife. My abdomen would be like a pound cake to her. Zap Granny.

That's a really good point. Taze away, damn it! :crackup:

[Back Marker]

And I'm sorry, but if someone has a knife, I don't give a damn who they are, if the threat of them hitting me with the knife is nullified by a taser than so be it, that's gonna happen. Don't care how damn old they are. Last I checked, knives didn't have a concern about the age of their holder when they slice your ass open.

a bed ridden granny with a knife is as threatening as a barking dog in a kennel. just keep your distance and the threat is gone. btw, was it a butter knife? i can't see granny concealing a tactical knife. she must be really threatening if she needs her oxygen mask to stay conscious. dunno what kind of training those cops had, but anyone with self defense training can easily disarm a half dead granny wielding a knife.

-a|ex

[jkhonea]

And all it takes is one cut to ruin a day. Sorry, my point stands.

[wallypiper]

The story I read said they were also concerned she was going to cut herself (remember, it all started as a 911 suicide call). It's pretty clear that many police departments around the country have fully adopted the idea that a taser is better than physical contact. And statistically, I expect they're right. The number and severity of injuries is probably much lower for taser use than for actual physical contact. I don't feel like trying to dig that out of the web, but I'd bet on it.

[Back Marker]

The story I read said they were also concerned she was going to cut herself (remember, it all started as a 911 suicide call). It's pretty clear that many police departments around the country have fully adopted the idea that a taser is better than physical contact. And statistically, I expect they're right. The number and severity of injuries is probably much lower for taser use than for actual physical contact. I don't feel like trying to dig that out of the web, but I'd bet on it.

i can't find in the article where it stated that it was a suicide call. it is common for home care patients to skip their meds. skipping meds is not a suicide attempt. more info is needed. i still like to know what kind of knife she had. the article also mentioned that the cops stepped on granny's oxygen supply until she was ready to pass out then tasered her. why not let her pass out instead of tasering her? cops need nursing home security training, they don't use tasers on dementia patients. my wife had no problem disarming elderly patients using forks as weapons.

-a|ex

[jkhonea]

You read the cops did that. Please bear in mind this is the same media that has a very hard time getting facts straight a lot of the time. I wouldn't trust what they write to be fair or objective for anything.

[Mongo]

"She says ... her life is over. She wants to end it. ... She's taken some medicine. I don't know what she's taken," Tinsley said in the 911 call. "I can't get her to tell me what she took. ... She's kind of upset and everything else."

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-granny-gets-shocked-by-taser-sues-el-reno-police/article/3471297?custom_click=masthead_topten#ixzz0sM5o0SZe

I'd take that as her being suicidal - coupled with being armed and the cops have no choice but to subdue her for her and their protection.

[Lazarus]

I'd take that as her being suicidal - coupled with being armed and the cops have no choice but to subdue her for her and their protection.

+1 And I bet you had they not have tazed her and she killed herself they would be getting sued because they didnt do anything.

[Back Marker]

cops over-reacted with the taser... in the nursing homes that my mom owns, the nurses usually just wack a pillow on any armed crippled suicidal patients. you would not believe how easy it is to subdue them. but everyone forgets the fact that crippled 80 year olds are very weak and very slow. sometimes you can just walk up next to them without them noticing you. how quick do you really think granny can react to someone just grabbing her wrist? nursing homes restrain violent grannies all the time without using tasers. if granny wanted to kill herself, she would have done so easily with the knife a long time ago. but that's beside the point. my guess is, cops had no training on how to deal with elderly assailants and just followed procedures for any well fit perp.

-a|ex

[Mongo]

Interesting, haven't seen anywhere she was bedridden, just that she's on o2 and was in bed.

[wallypiper]

cops over-reacted with the taser.

You're really missing the bigger point here. It's becoming more clear all the time that police agencies are adopting the taser as the preferred option for dealing with any uncooperative person in any situation. You may consider it an overreaction but I believe that the police consider it the best option. It's temporarily totally debilitating with no lasting effect. On rare occasions, they will encounter somebody who suffers some kind of cardiac reaction or something, but the risk of injury from physical contact is probably much higher.