GA Speeding Ticket Frenzy - Be Aware if you are heavy with the throttle...!

[Eandrews]

For those heavy of foot or throttle –


Dateline: AJC 07/19/2010

Starting Aug 1, 2010

Georgia will launch 30 day speeding ticket frenzy. The state estimates that 9 million dollars will be generated in speeding tickets. 1 million will go to pay state troopers' overtime. The rest to help with dwindling budgets. There will be 50 state troopers on duty at all times patrolling the 7 main intersections and highways. They are the following:
I-20 east and west
I-75 north and south
I-85 north and south
I-675 north and south
GA-985 north and south
GA-316 east and west
GA-400 north and south
5 mph above the limit can justify a ticket and every state trooper is supposed to pull a car over and write a ticket every 10 to 20 minutes. They have issued 30 brand new unmarked Dodge Charger Police cruisers and are bringing in all of their part timers on full time. If you work in the Atlanta area, you will probably take one of these highways. It's up to you how fast you are going when they clock you.
WSB and WXIA & CBS confirmed all of this. So be safe and don't forget speeding tickets are on you.
Look for city and county governments to adopt similar polices in the near future.

[ramm]

:eek:

[petrel800]

The tax collector cometh.

[KTM Rider]

sweet no 575:rocker:

[Eagalicious]

sweet no 575:rocker:

:gah: I knew we missed something!!!! :doh: <makes a radio call> :rofl: :run:

just kidding :crackup: Not big on the GSP myself

[wbeck257]

Fake...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/traffic/speeding.asp

[Eandrews]

Fake...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/traffic/speeding.asp

Damn, I'm usually good about checking snopes too..... NO WONDER 575 wasn't on there

[HoyaXc07]

Even though this is fake State Patrol still issues tickets like their job is on the line. I paid $69 for 5 over, you have been warned.

[KTM Rider]

Damn, I'm usually good about checking snopes too..... NO WONDER 575 wasn't on there

Was 575 not around in 2005 when this hoax came about? I didnt live here then so I dont know.............

[ramm]

Was 575 not around in 2005 when this hoax came about? I didnt live here then so I dont know.............

It was open. Source (http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-575_ga.html)


History

Interstate 575 was constructed in phases between 1979 and 1987.1, 2 The freeway route opened in phases as follows:
From Junction Interstate 75 to Junction Georgia 92 (Exit 7) - construction began in 1979, opened on October 16, 1980
From Junction Georgia 92 (Exit 7) to Junction Business Georgia 5/Riverstone Parkway (Exit 20) - construction began in 1981, opened on March 29, 1985; this incorporated the two-lane Georgia 20 bypass of Canton between Exits 16A and 19 that was built in 1978
From Junction Business Georgia 5/Riverstone Parkway (Exit 20) to Junction Georgia 372/Howell Bridge Road, opened in 1987

[KTM Rider]

thanks.:up: had we been drinking beers together you would have perceived my sarcasm. sorry the internet sucks at that.

[ramm]

thanks.:up: had we been drinking beers together you would have perceived my sarcasm. sorry the internet sucks at that.

:rofl: Well damn!

[bluerider]

So does this mean the mountains are wide open in August? lol

[impalanar]

Even though this is fake State Patrol still issues tickets like their job is on the line. I paid $69 for 5 over, you have been warned.

For 5 over? Pics or it didn't happen.

[HoyaXc07]

For 5 over? Pics or it didn't happen.

I had a whole thread dedicated to it a while back. Long story short, clocked going 50mph up blood mountain, cop said it was 50 in a 35 but the sign says 45(I even took pictures to prove it), went to court and the judge adjusted it to 50 in a 45(because clearly it was a "mistake") and I pay $69 for 5 over.

[wallypiper]

So you didn't get a ticket for 5 over. You got a ticket for 15 over. The judge corrected it. See the difference?

[Jet Jockey]

Keeping in mind this report was a spoof, nevertheless my director of aviation maintenance this summer in KY visiting family got a KYHP ticket on interstate for 7 mph over posted in a non-work zone, everything normal area. The LEO stated that they are starting to not allow the leniency they once did. So there's an element of truth to all of this. I have personally noticed enforcement has ramped up in many places. Obvious attempt to raise revenues for government who have lost big bucks due to unemployment + property tax declines + foreclosures that don't generate property taxes.

[impalanar]

I had a whole thread dedicated to it a while back. Long story short, clocked going 50mph up blood mountain, cop said it was 50 in a 35 but the sign says 45(I even took pictures to prove it), went to court and the judge adjusted it to 50 in a 45(because clearly it was a "mistake") and I pay $69 for 5 over.

OK, I remember that now, you didn't get a ticket for 5 over the judge reduced it to 5 over.

[wallypiper]

Some states actually post signs that say "Speed limit strictly enforced. Zero tolerance" or the like. Although GSP in GA can write a ticket for any speed, you have to be more than 14 mph over the posted limit before it earns points on your record and, reportedly, the DMV will not even record tickets for less than that. Other than GSP, Georgia law actually prohibits issuing speeding tickets for less than 10 mph over the posted limit based on speed detection devices. There are exceptions such as school zones, but on the highway the county mounties will not stop you for less than 10 and probably will not stop you for less than 15 unless they are in serious revenue collection mode. The tricky part now is the Superspeeder rule. On lots of rural interstate where the limit is 70 mph, the theoretical "tolerance" is 84 mph. 84 in a 70 doesn't cost any points on your record and is unlikely to be issued. But 85 in a 70 not only gets you a point, it makes you a Superspeeder and that's something like $200 extra. I drove from Evansville, IN to Atlanta yesterday. Outside of GA, I basically drove at 9 mph over the limit and was middle of the pack speedwise. In GA, I drove 14 over on I-75 from Chattanooga to Windy Hill and was, for the most part, a front runner but still got no attention from any police. If you want to go more than 84 mph on the highway, you're probably going to attract some attention. Think about a track day. More fun. Less risk. No tickets.

[RydeBye]

OK, I remember that now, you didn't get a ticket for 5 over the judge reduced it to 5 over.

ticket should have been dismissed for having false information on it

[Georgiacbr]

ticket should have been dismissed for having false information on it


ah but Georgia needs there money Doubt it would be dropped they had to find some flaw on user error.

[wallypiper]

ticket should have been dismissed for having false information on it

Are you a lawyer?

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

thanks.:up: had we been drinking beers together you would have perceived my sarcasm. sorry the internet sucks at that.



That's like saying your bike sucks at taking corners when you wreck :lol: :lol:

[impalanar]

ticket should have been dismissed for having false information on it

Let me know when that has ever worked. Now, were the cop in violation of the law that would be different.

[Jet Jockey]

Some states actually post signs that say "Speed limit strictly enforced. Zero tolerance" or the like. Although GSP in GA can write a ticket for any speed, you have to be more than 14 mph over the posted limit before it earns points on your record and, reportedly, the DMV will not even record tickets for less than that. Other than GSP, Georgia law actually prohibits issuing speeding tickets for less than 10 mph over the posted limit based on speed detection devices. There are exceptions such as school zones, but on the highway the county mounties will not stop you for less than 10 and probably will not stop you for less than 15 unless they are in serious revenue collection mode. The tricky part now is the Superspeeder rule. On lots of rural interstate where the limit is 70 mph, the theoretical "tolerance" is 84 mph. 84 in a 70 doesn't cost any points on your record and is unlikely to be issued. But 85 in a 70 not only gets you a point, it makes you a Superspeeder and that's something like $200 extra. I drove from Evansville, IN to Atlanta yesterday. Outside of GA, I basically drove at 9 mph over the limit and was middle of the pack speedwise. In GA, I drove 14 over on I-75 from Chattanooga to Windy Hill and was, for the most part, a front runner but still got no attention from any police. If you want to go more than 84 mph on the highway, you're probably going to attract some attention. Think about a track day. More fun. Less risk. No tickets.

I've been living in GA since 1989. I agree, that the law that allows GSP to write for any mph over, but locals have to give you 10. My experience is you've got to about 10 over on GA interstates by all LEOs. Above 10 over, you are rolling the dice big time. Depends on the officer & area, but with pressure being applied to generate revenue, lots of speeding tickets for 11+ over being written. Yes, no points until 15 over, but you will be paying a fine. Thumbs up for taking it to the track for the need for speed!

[Mongo]

I agree, I run 9-10 over and have no problems anywhere.

[Back Marker]

I agree, I run 9-10 over and have no problems anywhere.

once upon a time when i got my driver's license back, a state hwy patrol pulled me over for doing the speed limit on the fast lane.

-a|ex

[impalanar]

once upon a time when i got my driver's license back, a state hwy patrol pulled me over for doing the speed limit on the fast lane.

-a|ex

Obstructing the flow of traffic.

[Todd]

but locals have to give you 10.nope, locals only have to give you UP TO 10 if theyre using radar/laser/any other speed detecting device. They can pace you and write you up for anything up to that amount. Now, most of them dont, but BY LAW, they are allowed to.

[Back Marker]

Obstructing the flow of traffic.

legally, it wasn't... just because everyone is breaking the law didn't mean i needed to accommodate them. at times, i still do the speed limit on the highways. i have to when teaching my daughters how to drive. they need to get used to people tail gating them when it's time for them to take their road test. my oldest daughter almost failed her test because she felt obligated to speed when a long line of cars were tail gating her.

the main reason i do the speed limit is because i tend to hyper-mill my wife's suburban.

-a|ex

[Back Marker]

nope, locals only have to give you UP TO 10 if theyre using radar/laser/any other speed detecting device. They can pace you and write you up for anything up to that amount. Now, most of them dont, but BY LAW, they are allowed to.

they cannot pace you either... GA statute prohibits using any electronic device to record below 10 for local (certain zones exceptions). current vehicle speedometers are electronic.

-a|ex

[Mongo]

legally, it wasn't... just because everyone is breaking the law didn't mean i needed to accommodate them. at times, i still do the speed limit on the highways. i have to when teaching my daughters how to drive. they need to get used to people tail gating them when it's time for them to take their road test. my oldest daughter almost failed her test because she felt obligated to speed when a long line of cars were tail gating her.

the main reason i do the speed limit is because i tend to hyper-mill my wife's suburban.

-a|ex

Legally it is - even if you're doing the speed limit you can be obstructing the flow of traffic.

[Todd]

they cannot pace you either... GA statute prohibits using any electronic device to record below 10 for local (certain zones exceptions). current vehicle speedometers are electronic.

-a|exbut their speedometers are not "speed detection devices", ie: purposely designed for the detection of speed. There is a reason the law spells that out specifically. Try using that excuse to the judge when/if you ever get pulled over for being paced, then lemme know how that went for ya. :up:

edit: im speaking from experience on this one. :D

[BlueLghtning]

legally, it wasn't... just because everyone is breaking the law didn't mean i needed to accommodate them. at times, i still do the speed limit on the highways. i have to when teaching my daughters how to drive. they need to get used to people tail gating them when it's time for them to take their road test. my oldest daughter almost failed her test because she felt obligated to speed when a long line of cars were tail gating her.

the main reason i do the speed limit is because i tend to hyper-mill my wife's suburban.

-a|ex


Legally it is - even if you're doing the speed limit you can be obstructing the flow of traffic.

You ever seen this sign? (Slower Traffic Keep Right)

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID12612/images/ist2_4746681-slower-traffic-keep-right%5B1%5D.jpg

It doesn't matter what speed you are doing, if you are getting passed on the right, you are obstructing the flow of traffic and breaking the law.

[BlueLghtning]

but their speedometers are not "speed detection devices", ie: purposely designed for the detection of speed. There is a reason the law spells that out specifically. Try using that excuse to the judge when/if you ever get pulled over for being paced, then lemme know how that went for ya. :up:

edit: im speaking from experience on this one. :D

Todd's right on this one. the 10mph is only limited to speed detection devices. Speedometers don't fall under that.

[Back Marker]

but their speedometers are not "speed detection devices", ie: purposely designed for the detection of speed. There is a reason the law spells that out specifically. Try using that excuse to the judge when/if you ever get pulled over for being paced, then lemme know how that went for ya. :up:

edit: im speaking from experience on this one. :D

you are correct, i was a bit over-presumptuous and failed.

i would like to hear about your speedo pacing case. did it go to jury trial? was the accuracy challenged? was the speedo calibration certification or log produced? tire temp/inflation/wear checked at the time (i think most calibration is done every 6 months)? did the officer know the error margin of his speedometer? did his speedometer have each mile labeled or just increments of 5?

i've never been involved in speedo pacing, but i have dismissed a vascar ticket in OH (no lawyer needed).

-a|ex

[Back Marker]

You ever seen this sign? (Slower Traffic Keep Right)

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID12612/images/ist2_4746681-slower-traffic-keep-right%5B1%5D.jpg

It doesn't matter what speed you are doing, if you are getting passed on the right, you are obstructing the flow of traffic and breaking the law.

egads, you never been to traffic court and won before, eh? i can argue that i was doing the posted speed limit. if traffic decides to pass me up on the right, then it's their ticket, not mine. doing the posted speed limit is not illegal unless certain circumstances that makes it illegal (during heavy rain, speed limit drops - i can't remember the statute on this one). there is a minimum posted speed limit and slower moving vehicles must have that warning triangle thing or flashers.

show me the statute that says it is illegal to do the posted speed limit when everyone is breaking the law?

-a|ex

[keevo54]

Lol this is all urban legend. They are not going on a speeding frenzy and there are a lot of inaccuracies in the new posting(ie gsp doesnt have undercover cars, they can right as ticket for 1 over it doesnt have to be 5 over, etc)

[Mongo]

egads, you never been to traffic court and won before, eh? i can argue that i was doing the posted speed limit. if traffic decides to pass me up on the right, then it's their ticket, not mine. doing the posted speed limit is not illegal unless certain circumstances that makes it illegal (during heavy rain, speed limit drops - i can't remember the statute on this one). there is a minimum posted speed limit and slower moving vehicles must have that warning triangle thing or flashers.

show me the statute that says it is illegal to do the posted speed limit when everyone is breaking the law?

-a|ex

It's easy to find - go search the code for the obstructing the flow of traffic law. You can sit there telling yourself that you were in the right, but you weren't. You were obeying one law but still breaking another, they don't cancel each other out. It doesn't say you have to speed, it says you have to move to the right, out of the way of the faster traffic. The whole yankee thing about "I'm in the right doing the speed limit so I'm going to force everyone else to do what I want" shit doesn't fly here, yet another reason I like the South :D

[Todd]

you are correct, i was a bit over-presumptuous and failed.

i would like to hear about your speedo pacing case. did it go to jury trial? was the accuracy challenged? was the speedo calibration certification or log produced? tire temp/inflation/wear checked at the time (i think most calibration is done every 6 months)? did the officer know the error margin of his speedometer? did his speedometer have each mile labeled or just increments of 5?

i've never been involved in speedo pacing, but i have dismissed a vascar ticket in OH (no lawyer needed).

-a|exnope, no jury trial, one wasnt needed. I went to court with that statute in hand, plead not guilty. When my time came up, the judge very nicely explained to me, what i just explained to you.

My mother worked for the Attorney General's office for 30 years before she passed away. I didnt bother to tell her my plans on that ticket as far as court was concerned. After it was over, i went to her, still pissed that i'd lost the case, and told me to talk to the three asst. AG's in her office and see what their take on it was. Once again, they explained it the same way the judge did.

My speeding ticket rap sheet i had printed up when i was about 28 or 29 years old (needed a 5 year report for the ins. co. i was going with). When they asked how many years i wanted to go back, i told them to go ALL the way back, or as close to 1977 as they could get. This was back in the day of daisey wheel printers. Lets just say by the time it got thru printing out, the first page was dragging the floor. Damn thing was almost 3 feet long. The lady at the GSP office here in Conyers looked up at me and asked......"and you STILL have your drivers license?" I just laughed and told her to look the date of the LAST ticket in the que, and it had been over 2 years since id had one. At that time, every single charge up to that date, were speeding offenses (along with one suspended license when i was 19). Needless to say, ive had my share of brushes with the law. Took me awhile, but i learned my lesson. Thats why i sit here and laugh at some of these guys bitching about getting "non deserving" tickets. Hell, at the time, i didnt think i deserved ANY that i got, but looking back (and even REALLY at the time i knew, just didnt want to admit it), i deserved 99.9% of them.

[Jet Jockey]

nope, locals only have to give you UP TO 10 if theyre using radar/laser/any other speed detecting device. They can pace you and write you up for anything up to that amount. Now, most of them dont, but BY LAW, they are allowed to.

Yes my reply was based on the use of electronic devices to detect speed. No one had mentioned pacing or observing. Those are different elements altogether & require a different set of assumptions.

[Back Marker]

It's easy to find - go search the code for the obstructing the flow of traffic law. You can sit there telling yourself that you were in the right, but you weren't. You were obeying one law but still breaking another, they don't cancel each other out. It doesn't say you have to speed, it says you have to move to the right, out of the way of the faster traffic. The whole yankee thing about "I'm in the right doing the speed limit so I'm going to force everyone else to do what I want" shit doesn't fly here, yet another reason I like the South :D

obstructing the flow of traffic has to do with driving below the minimum speed (40 mph) or dumping debri on the road. don't make me look up the statutes. if you haven't, then don't quote it because it doesn't exist. there is no statute that makes it illegal to do the speed limit when everyone is speeding.

you're assuming my intent was to slow down traffic. not in my case at all. lanes do split and there are left exits. normally i will do the speed limit on the far right, but when lanes split and i need to drive on the fast lanes, i may sometimes not do 75 on a 55. everyone up north also speeds, therefore, it's not a north or south thing. what amuses me is that everyone drops down to my speed when an approaching LEO comes by. why is that?

i see no need to doing 10 mph over the speed limit and i'm teaching my kids the same. even on rural 45 mph zones, i refuse to keep up with traffic. so next time you get a speeding ticket, tell the cops it was illegal for doing the speed limit when everyone was speeding. tell me how that works in court for you.

-a|ex

[impalanar]

what amuses me is that everyone drops down to my speed when an approaching LEO comes by. why is that?


-a|ex

I don't.

And for your reading pleasure:


40-6-40.
(a) Upon all roadways of sufficient width, a vehicle shall be driven upon the right half of the roadway, except as follows:
(1) When overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction under the rules governing such movement;
(2) When an obstruction exists making it necessary to drive to the left of the center of the highway, provided that any person so doing shall yield the right of way to all vehicles traveling in the proper direction upon the unobstructed portion of the highway within such a distance as to constitute an immediate hazard;
(3) Upon a roadway divided into three marked lanes for traffic under the rules applicable thereon; or
(4) Upon a roadway restricted to one-way traffic.

[Back Marker]

I don't.

And for your reading pleasure:

improper lane doesn't apply to my case. my exit is on the left lanes (lane split). nice try though. has anyone used 40-6-184 to get out of a speeding ticket? please officer, i was speeding because not doing so would impede the flow of traffic.

-a|ex

[BlueLghtning]

egads, you never been to traffic court and won before, eh? i can argue that i was doing the posted speed limit. if traffic decides to pass me up on the right, then it's their ticket, not mine. doing the posted speed limit is not illegal unless certain circumstances that makes it illegal (during heavy rain, speed limit drops - i can't remember the statute on this one). there is a minimum posted speed limit and slower moving vehicles must have that warning triangle thing or flashers.

show me the statute that says it is illegal to do the posted speed limit when everyone is breaking the law?

-a|ex

Actually I have been to traffic court with someone that won a case with the law on their side and seriously embarrassed the cop testifying and had the judge trying to figure out why their little "revenue game" had just back fired on them. It was quite entertaining to say the least.

Besides that, check out this article - http://www.times-herald.com/Local/Bill-would-impose--75-fine-for-blocking-the-fast-lane-

That was HB-1047 and it looks like it actually passed in March of this year. - http://www.legis.ga.gov/legis/2009_10/search/hb1047.htm

The law 40-6-40 quoted above was already on the books, but they just gave it a bit more teeth with a minimum fine. Please explain to us again how you think riding in the fast lane (when all other traffic is going faster around you) is not illegal.

[impalanar]

improper lane doesn't apply to my case. my exit is on the left lanes (lane split). nice try though. has anyone used 40-6-184 to get out of a speeding ticket? please officer, i was speeding because not doing so would impede the flow of traffic.

-a|ex

I like how you came up with excuses for why it didn't apply to you after your initial statement of:


legally, it wasn't... just because everyone is breaking the law didn't mean i needed to accommodate them. at times, i still do the speed limit on the highways.

[MONICA]

improper lane doesn't apply to my case. my exit is on the left lanes (lane split). nice try though. has anyone used 40-6-184 to get out of a speeding ticket? please officer, i was speeding because not doing so would impede the flow of traffic.

-a|ex

To repeat what I believe Mongo said earlier, the law doesn't say you have to speed, it says you have to move to the other lane. Are you now saying that the only time you go slow in the left lane is when you have an exit on the left, and if so, how far away from your exit are you when you do this?

[ROCKER]

obstructing the flow of traffic has to do with driving below the minimum speed (40 mph) or dumping debri on the road. don't make me look up the statutes. if you haven't, then don't quote it because it doesn't exist. there is no statute that makes it illegal to do the speed limit when everyone is speeding.

you're assuming my intent was to slow down traffic. not in my case at all. lanes do split and there are left exits. normally i will do the speed limit on the far right, but when lanes split and i need to drive on the fast lanes, i may sometimes not do 75 on a 55. everyone up north also speeds, therefore, it's not a north or south thing. what amuses me is that everyone drops down to my speed when an approaching LEO comes by. why is that?

i see no need to doing 10 mph over the speed limit and i'm teaching my kids the same. even on rural 45 mph zones, i refuse to keep up with traffic. so next time you get a speeding ticket, tell the cops it was illegal for doing the speed limit when everyone was speeding. tell me how that works in court for you.

-a|ex

I think I just found out who's teaching people to block the passing lane. You're the cause of most of the traffic, move over and let people pass.
In case you haven't realized it, the lanes go faster towards the left. Pick the speed you want to travel and get in the appropriate lane. Does it bother you people want to drive faster than you?
Are you the guy doing 55 in the HOV lane and flipping off the people behind you cuz they want to go faster?
GTF out of the way.

[Jet Jockey]

i see no need to doing 10 mph over the speed limit and i'm teaching my kids the same. even on rural 45 mph zones, i refuse to keep up with traffic. so next time you get a speeding ticket, tell the cops it was illegal for doing the speed limit when everyone was speeding. tell me how that works in court for you.

-a|ex

That's your choice to drive at your pace. You can make that your choice - but it does have some consequences. I choose differently. There are many points of fact that need to go into our driving choices. Often these are overlooked or ignored or not even understood.

Personal Context:
I attended police academy in a former life, was an LEO for a period. The driving portion of law enforcement was my special area of interest & practise.
I am a current high performance driving instructor, teaching safe driving skills and techniques.

1. Posted Speed limits are not always reasonable & prudent, not always established through due process, not always implemented with appropriate policy backup. There are countless examples of this all over the USA.

2. LEO training in speed enforcement is hit & miss. LEO calibration of speed detection equipment is hit & miss. Most electronic speed detection equipment has a slew of potential error problems that would take up pages of postings to explain & demonstrate. I myself have pointed a radar unit at a power pole and clocked an "illegal" speed, etc., etc.

3. Governments use LEO traffic tickets for significant revenue generation. It's a fact. That fact alone enables a certain amount of corruption in the process. Faulty humans do faulty things. Among the faulty things done is to post speed trap type of speed limits to snare motorists and increase revenues. Again, the country is full of these places.

4. Numerous studies over the years have demonstrated that one of the worst ways to increase traffic accidents is have significant speed disparity in the vehicles. Your being the slow person, especially if you select the "passing lane" is one of the greatest escalators of risk of collision that exists around your vehicle.

5. There's a definite reason why the many warning signs that say: Slow Traffic Keep Right. And in Texas (plus other enlightened states, and certain countries like Germany and Italy), there's 0 tolerance for being in the passing lane when not passing, no matter what your speed is.

6. Intelligent & skilled driving is what is sorely needed in the USA. This type of trained advanced driving is the antithysis being a moving road block that is actually increasing accident risk to everyone around.

[Back Marker]

yeah, go ahead and hate on me for doing the speed limit. yeah, i also speed, it's unavoidable. and no, i don't always purposely slow down to the speed limit unless i get a tail-gater or i'm driving my wife's suv that does 13/15 mpg city/hwy. when i used to ride my gsxr, i always sped but knew how to look for cops. in a car, i'm less likely to enjoy speeding because it's a family car. i lost my license at an early age because my first car was a corvette. the point is, i'm not a perfect driver. but do have my reasons for doing the speed limit on the fast lanes. for those that think i'm changing my story around, i'm just going from general to more specific. yes, i said i did the speed limit on the fast lanes. now i have to explain why i did so and get hated on in the process. i'm not changing the story. i do both, speed on the fast lane and do the speed limit on the fast lane.

back to doing the speed limit on the fast lane. i do it many times to get to my left exit lanes. sucks to be the one doing 20mph over the limit behind me... any cop that thinks it's a 40-6-184 or 40-6-40 is gonna have a hard time in court.

if i'm borrowing a buddy's twin turbo, o hell yah i'm gonna do short bursts 20+mph over the limit on any open lane far left or far right. if i get a ticket, then sux 2 B me. i'll take it with a smile and plea it down like i have in the past.

-a|ex

[jkhonea]

Alex, got no problem with you speeding or doing the speed limit. But get the hell out of the fast lane if you're going to do the speed limit. As far as doing the speed limit in fast lanes, you have no reason other than trying to be an asshole and control traffic. Sorry to put it bluntly. That's just the best I can put it now.

[Back Marker]

Alex, got no problem with you speeding or doing the speed limit. But get the hell out of the fast lane if you're going to do the speed limit. As far as doing the speed limit in fast lanes, you have no reason other than trying to be an asshole and control traffic. Sorry to put it bluntly. That's just the best I can put it now.

it's just the opposite, if i'm doing the speed limit and i'm getting on the left exit lanes which is also the fast lanes, i'm not going to let traffic turn me into a ticket bait. i haven't had a speeding ticket in over 20 years and i'm keeping it that way.

this has nothing to do with me trying to force everyone to do the speed limit. i generally stay on the slow lane.

-a|ex

[jkhonea]

it's just the opposite, if i'm doing the speed limit and i'm getting on the left exit lanes which is also the fast lanes, i'm not going to let traffic turn me into a ticket bait. i haven't had a speeding ticket in over 20 years and i'm keeping it that way.

this has nothing to do with me trying to force everyone to do the speed limit. i generally stay on the slow lane.

-a|ex

If you generally stay in the slow lane, that isn't what you've indicated in every other post. Like I said, I have no problem if you do the speed limit, hell, I appreciate it if you do, but stay out of the fast lane. Most of the time I'm within no more than nine miles of the speed limit, unless on 285. Then i go the same or a hair faster, for survival.

[wallypiper]

Alex, can you list more than 5 left lane exits in the metro Atlanta area. I know of I-20 off of 285 on the west side, both directions. 575/75 north requires you to be in a lane that is sort of in the middle to take 75. I think the same is true at 85/985. And the 85/75 splits at both ends of the connector require you to be in a middle lane, for 85 going north and for 75 going south. Other than that, I can't think of one other than HOV exits which are optional in all cases.

As for the impeding the flow of traffic law, it has this emasculating phrase: "no person shall continue to operate a motor vehicle in the most left-hand lane at less than the maximum lawful speed limit". So it does not in any case require you to exceed the posted speed limit or even move out of the way to allow people going faster than the speed limit to pass. It's certainly the courteous thing to do since the real speed limit in some areas is obviously much higher than the posted limit. That's a stupid situation but it's been that way since they started posting speed limits. 285 should be at least 65 mph except in certain highly congested spots (like the I-20 interchange on the west side, the I-75 interchange on the NW corner etc), but it's not and they're not likely to ever change it.

But for safety, the key is what Jet Jockey posted. What's dangerous is wide disparity in speed. Some states routinely post lower limits for trucks. It's generally a disaster, created lots of lane changing and traffic knots at high speed as cars and trucks jockey around. Saturday, during my drive down from Indiana, I watched a guy get on 75 south, move immediately to the #2 lane (2nd from the left) out of 4, and go approximately the speed limit which was 70 at that spot. He was certainly within his legal rights to do that but he created an immediate emergency situation for dozens of other drivers as people were forced to brake hard from 80-85 mph, change lanes to the left and right and generally start dancing around each other at high speed. He wasn't breaking the law, but he almost caused a massive wreck. Idiot.

[Mongo]

obstructing the flow of traffic has to do with driving below the minimum speed (40 mph) or dumping debri on the road. don't make me look up the statutes. if you haven't, then don't quote it because it doesn't exist. there is no statute that makes it illegal to do the speed limit when everyone is speeding.

you're assuming my intent was to slow down traffic. not in my case at all. lanes do split and there are left exits. normally i will do the speed limit on the far right, but when lanes split and i need to drive on the fast lanes, i may sometimes not do 75 on a 55. everyone up north also speeds, therefore, it's not a north or south thing. what amuses me is that everyone drops down to my speed when an approaching LEO comes by. why is that?

i see no need to doing 10 mph over the speed limit and i'm teaching my kids the same. even on rural 45 mph zones, i refuse to keep up with traffic. so next time you get a speeding ticket, tell the cops it was illegal for doing the speed limit when everyone was speeding. tell me how that works in court for you.

-a|ex

I don't care what your intent was, but your initial post sure made it sound like you want everyone to do as you do...

Look up the statutes, I have in the past, impeding the flow of traffic doesn't mean you have to be doing lower than the speed limit no matter how much you wish it did. It doesn't mean doing less than the minimum. And yet again - just because you're following one law does NOT mean you can't be breaking another.

If a cop pulled you over as YOU said, then you were not coming up on a left exit. I don't drop to the speed limit when a cop comes by me in the ATL, he'd run my ass over if I did...

I don't care how you teach your kids to drive, that's your prerogative. In case you've missed it, as I've said, I don't get speeding tickets for doing 10 over...

[Mongo]

improper lane doesn't apply to my case. my exit is on the left lanes (lane split). nice try though. has anyone used 40-6-184 to get out of a speeding ticket? please officer, i was speeding because not doing so would impede the flow of traffic.

-a|ex

WTF? Are you not paying attention? All anyone is saying is you need to get out of the left lane - period. If traffic is flowing faster than the speed limit and your pokey ass is out in the fast lane you CAN get a ticket - even if you're doing the speed limit. That's it, end of story. If you're going to go 55 then move to the right and stay out of the way. That has nothing to do with speeding, yours or others. A cop isn't going to pull you over if you're in the left lane before one of the what, 3 total left exits in the ATL?

You really need to quit making up stupid scenarios, you are wrong, you were wrong, get over it and move along.

[Mongo]

yeah, go ahead and hate on me for doing the speed limit.

Okay, it's official. You haven't read anything anyone else has said. Not one single person ever hated on you for doing the speed limit. The one and only single issue has been and will be YOUR comment about doing so in the left lane and being upset for getting pulled over for it. Period, end of story.

Just as a reminder "once upon a time when i got my driver's license back, a state hwy patrol pulled me over for doing the speed limit on the fast lane." is what you said. Someone then posted "Obstructing the flow of traffic" which is why you got pulled over. You then started arguing why it wasn't.

Well, it was. The original response was and is true and your argument about how following one law keeps you from breaking another is flawed. Find something else to use.

[wallypiper]

You're wrong, Mongo. See the bold section of the law in my post above. You are not required to speed up or move over if you are going the speed limit. You are only breaking the law if you are going less than the maximum speed limit. That's the law. They can't pass a law that endorses or excuses exceeding the speed limit. It would be thrown out. They COULD but haven't make an actual law that says you have to stay to the right unless you are passing somebody. They have signs that say it, but I don't think there's an actual law behind it. It's just a reminder to be courteous which, apparently, some people need reminding of.

[Jet Jockey]

yeah, go ahead and hate on me for doing the speed limit. yeah, i also speed, it's unavoidable. and no, i don't always purposely slow down to the speed limit unless i get a tail-gater or i'm driving my wife's suv that does 13/15 mpg city/hwy. when i used to ride my gsxr, i always sped but knew how to look for cops. in a car, i'm less likely to enjoy speeding because it's a family car. i lost my license at an early age because my first car was a corvette. the point is, i'm not a perfect driver. but do have my reasons for doing the speed limit on the fast lanes. for those that think i'm changing my story around, i'm just going from general to more specific. yes, i said i did the speed limit on the fast lanes. now i have to explain why i did so and get hated on in the process. i'm not changing the story. i do both, speed on the fast lane and do the speed limit on the fast lane.

back to doing the speed limit on the fast lane. i do it many times to get to my left exit lanes. sucks to be the one doing 20mph over the limit behind me... any cop that thinks it's a 40-6-184 or 40-6-40 is gonna have a hard time in court.

if i'm borrowing a buddy's twin turbo, o hell yah i'm gonna do short bursts 20+mph over the limit on any open lane far left or far right. if i get a ticket, then sux 2 B me. i'll take it with a smile and plea it down like i have in the past.

-a|ex

Hmmm...I think this is an over-reaction my man! "Hate"? That's a terribly ultimate & strong word.

Wikipedia definition:

Hate speech is speech perceived to disparage a person or group of people based on their social or ethnic group,[7] such as race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, ideology, social class, occupation, appearance (height, weight, skin color, etc.), mental capacity, and any other distinction that might be considered by some as a liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting. It is also sometimes called antilocution and is the first point on Allport's scale which measures prejudice in a society. In many countries, deliberate use of hate speech is a criminal offence prohibited under incitement to hatred legislation.

No one is using "hate speech" here against you. This is a simple discussion & disagreement. It would be better to see what we can learn & improve in our riding / driving, than turn this personal. I'm just saying.

Take care...no hate going on for myself,
JJ

[Mongo]

You're wrong, Mongo. See the bold section of the law in my post above. You are not required to speed up or move over if you are going the speed limit. You are only breaking the law if you are going less than the maximum speed limit. That's the law. They can't pass a law that endorses or excuses exceeding the speed limit. It would be thrown out. They COULD but haven't make an actual law that says you have to stay to the right unless you are passing somebody. They have signs that say it, but I don't think there's an actual law behind it. It's just a reminder to be courteous which, apparently, some people need reminding of.

I'll go look later if I'm bored enough, I've seen it in the actual code before.

[KTM Rider]

That's like saying your bike sucks at taking corners when you wreck :lol: :lol:

:lol:

[jtryz]

thank god, now all of u huligans will get what u desirve.....


For those heavy of foot or throttle –


Dateline: AJC 07/19/2010

Starting Aug 1, 2010

Georgia will launch 30 day speeding ticket frenzy. The state estimates that 9 million dollars will be generated in speeding tickets. 1 million will go to pay state troopers' overtime. The rest to help with dwindling budgets. There will be 50 state troopers on duty at all times patrolling the 7 main intersections and highways. They are the following:
I-20 east and west
I-75 north and south
I-85 north and south
I-675 north and south
GA-985 north and south
GA-316 east and west
GA-400 north and south
5 mph above the limit can justify a ticket and every state trooper is supposed to pull a car over and write a ticket every 10 to 20 minutes. They have issued 30 brand new unmarked Dodge Charger Police cruisers and are bringing in all of their part timers on full time. If you work in the Atlanta area, you will probably take one of these highways. It's up to you how fast you are going when they clock you.
WSB and WXIA & CBS confirmed all of this. So be safe and don't forget speeding tickets are on you.
Look for city and county governments to adopt similar polices in the near future.

[Back Marker]

you guys are old school... "don't hate on me" is a slang. my kids and their friends use it all the time. again, i said it before, my initial post was general but it did sound like i always did so. it's like someone admitting that they speed, which doesn't necessarily mean they speed all the time. i do apologize for not being clear and misleading making it sound that i always do the speed limit on the fast lanes.

the areas i do so was mentioned already 285 to west 20 and from South 85 going N merging onto 75 into downtown. in court, telling the judge you were speeding because traffic was speeding will not get you out of a ticket. it's very simple. you speed, you take your chances for a ticket. cops will pick out anyone they want when the flow of traffic is excessive. i've heard that excuse a number of times in court and they never got out of the ticket.

carry on, nothing to see here...

-a|ex

[Mongo]

a slang? okay....

[Jet Jockey]

you guys are old school... "don't hate on me" is a slang. my kids and their friends use it all the time. again, i said it before, my initial post was general but it did sound like i always did so. it's like someone admitting that they speed, which doesn't necessarily mean they speed all the time. i do apologize for not being clear and misleading making it sound that i always do the speed limit on the fast lanes.

the areas i do so was mentioned already 285 to west 20 and from South 85 going N merging onto 75 into downtown. in court, telling the judge you were speeding because traffic was speeding will not get you out of a ticket. it's very simple. you speed, you take your chances for a ticket. cops will pick out anyone they want when the flow of traffic is excessive. i've heard that excuse a number of times in court and they never got out of the ticket.

carry on, nothing to see here...

-a|ex

Since you are 45, I figured you were one of us "old dudes" too... :handclap: :)

I agree that cops in heavy traffic will "select a victim to shoot out of the herd". Yep! You speed, you take your chances. Everyone should well know that by now.

Can I ask you to consider this very serious driving fact: It is the disparity in speeds between cars on the same road that is one of the greatest contributors to accidents. Therefore, can I ask you to consider dealing with the faster lanes (it's just a factual reality of our existence - without judging right or wrong) by matching the speeds there as closely as possible, and if you are not comfortable with the speeds the folks are doing in the faster lanes at any given moment, you move to what is universally considered the slower lanes to the right?

I'm going to say Dad to Dad, that this example & instruction will very possibly keep you, and your kids alive and uninjured one day in their own driving careers.

Respectfully,
Jet Jockey

[061k]

[QUOTE=Mongo;43309]I'll go look later if I'm bored enough, I've seen it in the actual code before. ] your definitely wrong there.maybe you need to check that again.you probably misinterpreted what you read.be bored and let me know what you find out

[Back Marker]

I'm going to say Dad to Dad, that this example & instruction will very possibly keep you, and your kids alive and uninjured one day in their own driving careers.

Respectfully,
Jet Jockey

this is what i tell my daughters whenever we see a bad driver either excessively speeding or failing to look or use turn signals: that driver didn't have an awesome dad to learn how to drive safely...

the difference in speed is a contributing factor, but it shouldn't be a problem for attentive drivers. on multi-lane highways, it only takes one person to start the herd going. it takes a major speed trap to get the herd doing the legal limit. people don't take traffic laws seriously because the penalties aren't serious. if the penalty included a night in jail, we wouldn't see any superspeeders but this will reduce citation income, therefore, it's in the best interest of the city/state to maintain the fines affordable to keep speeders paying.

as for speed disparity on two lane roadways, i taught my kids not to let tailgaters intimidate them. i'm thinking about putting a bumpersticker that says: caution, new driver's dad may shoot tailgaters.

if someone exceeding the speed limit rear-ends my daughter doing the speed limit, the law will side with the one not speeding. been there, won that one. if every new driver had an awesome dad, then the speed disparity will be greatly reduced. i have taken my oldest daughter driving down to florida and back to supplement her drivers ed. she now has full license. my younger daughter is 15 and we've driven from south to north atlanta during rush hour several times so she can understand traffic patterns and how important it is to pay attention. she almost collided while trying to change radio stations. also, she realizes how important it is to let tractor trailers have right of way when lanes merge.

whenever we see skid marks or autoparts road debri, we do a CSI analysis on what went wrong.

as noted, disparity in speed combined with lane changes increases the chance of accidents. but as i mentioned before, a properly trained and attentive driver should be able to predict traffic to avoid these accidents. distraction is almost always the cause in an accident. i've never been involved in a collision with another vehicle yet because i don't rely on mirrors.

after losing my driver's privileges at 16 years old and being involved in street racing (and it's consequences) in college, i take driving more seriously than most people. i try to pass on my survival skills including ticket avoidance to my kids.

-a|ex

[THE MUFFIN MAN]

i think i just found out who's teaching people to block the passing lane. You're the cause of most of the traffic, move over and let people pass.
In case you haven't realized it, the lanes go faster towards the left. Pick the speed you want to travel and get in the appropriate lane. Does it bother you people want to drive faster than you?
Are you the guy doing 55 in the hov lane and flipping off the people behind you cuz they want to go faster?
Gtf out of the way.
ftw!!

[Jet Jockey]

this is what i tell my daughters whenever we see a bad driver either excessively speeding or failing to look or use turn signals: that driver didn't have an awesome dad to learn how to drive safely...

the difference in speed is a contributing factor, but it shouldn't be a problem for attentive drivers. on multi-lane highways, it only takes one person to start the herd going. it takes a major speed trap to get the herd doing the legal limit. people don't take traffic laws seriously because the penalties aren't serious. if the penalty included a night in jail, we wouldn't see any superspeeders but this will reduce citation income, therefore, it's in the best interest of the city/state to maintain the fines affordable to keep speeders paying.

as for speed disparity on two lane roadways, i taught my kids not to let tailgaters intimidate them. i'm thinking about putting a bumpersticker that says: caution, new driver's dad may shoot tailgaters.

if someone exceeding the speed limit rear-ends my daughter doing the speed limit, the law will side with the one not speeding. been there, won that one. if every new driver had an awesome dad, then the speed disparity will be greatly reduced. i have taken my oldest daughter driving down to florida and back to supplement her drivers ed. she now has full license. my younger daughter is 15 and we've driven from south to north atlanta during rush hour several times so she can understand traffic patterns and how important it is to pay attention. she almost collided while trying to change radio stations. also, she realizes how important it is to let tractor trailers have right of way when lanes merge.

whenever we see skid marks or autoparts road debri, we do a CSI analysis on what went wrong.

as noted, disparity in speed combined with lane changes increases the chance of accidents. but as i mentioned before, a properly trained and attentive driver should be able to predict traffic to avoid these accidents. distraction is almost always the cause in an accident. i've never been involved in a collision with another vehicle yet because i don't rely on mirrors.

after losing my driver's privileges at 16 years old and being involved in street racing (and it's consequences) in college, i take driving more seriously than most people. i try to pass on my survival skills including ticket avoidance to my kids.

-a|ex

Sounds like in many ways you are doing a great job instructing your kids in the art & survival of driving in the 21st century. Keep it up! The lives you protect and save will be those you love most.

I fully agree with you that distraction is a seriously major contributor to most accidents. I will go so far as to say lack of FOCUS / distraction / lack of attention to the driving techniques & requirements of the moment is THE major creator of accidents. We teach in our HPDE schools, speed doesn't kill! If speed killed, then auto racing would be filled with deaths every weekend. Speed can make an accident more deadly, yes. But what creates accidents that can lead to death is lack of focused attention on the skills required to drive safest in the moment.

My main problem is the original thought of - I'm in the faster lanes & by God I'm gonna stay there even if I'm creating a road block ,mentality that nearly everyone has responded against here. I would argue that this action & mentality behind it IS in and of itself a lack of focused attention on what is the best choice for the moment you are driving in.

THAT sort of distraction is pure dangerous. THAT actually creates what is a text book illustration of the speed disparity that research, not opinion, demonstrates is a major contributor to accidents on any and all road ways whether 2 lane or multiple lane.

All anyone is asking is that any one of us traveling below the majority speed on the interstate move to the right - to the legally prescribed and culturally expected slower lanes, end of story, end of problem. And if at times we insist on driving below a speed limit on a 2 lane road, by all means be considerate of the safety hazzard we will likely be creating as the cars stack up behind us - and simply pull over ASAP where safe & allow everyone to pass safely. If one of us is traveling below the speed limit, it isn't a matter of "don't be intimidated", it's a matter of be courteous, professional & safe. Treat others as you would want to be treated.

I will respectfully disagree. The enforcement & revenue generating traffic stop machine is in full gear, and accelerating efforts. The problem is not with lack of enforcement. The problem is at the core 2 fold: 1) A terrible lack of legitimate high performance driving instruction / appropriately difficult driver testing / license earning and re-current training, here in the USA; and 2) Often very antiquated and inadequate, and politically motivated, revenue targeted traffic laws, speed limits, that exist widespread across the USA.

Real life illustration:
Yesterday, enroute to church I was in my Corvette Z06. I was doing my typical 5 - 10 mph above posted safely keeping pace with the majority on the open rural interstate. Along the way, the pack of cars I was in came up on 1 slow vehicle defiantly riding to the left of the slower lane he should've been in. Due to the arrangement of the cars at the moment, my best, safest path was a deliberate pass to the far right around him and away from everyone who was braking to avoid. If an accident was going to happen, I was going to be in the open area away from the drama & with another emergency lane to avoid the melee. After passing him, about 1/2 mile later I carefully & slowly pulled back to the passing lane & passed some slow moving trucks in the far right lane, then eased slowly & smoothly back to the far right lane, made the exit about 1/4 mile ahead, all with no acceleration, no fast moves, no gear changes, just a smooth & careful double passing manuever over approximately 1 mile distance.

As I calmly passed I realized it was a fellow I knew with his family going to the same church I was. Didn't think any more of itl, but in church later on he came up to me ticked off at being passed! Then he claimed I was speeding and madly dodging back & forth between lanes & setting a bad example.

I was actually amused and just shook my head and smiled as he - the dangerous moving road block - ranted. I mentioned to him that I hadn't done anything illegal or dangerous. I asked him what part of the law I had broken. He said I was speeding. I said I was doing no more than 10 mph over at any time & does he ever do that himself and does the GSP give folks that amount on the interstate in an open & rural 70mph zone? He admitted they did & grew quiet. I noted it was not illegal to pass other vehicles in a marked passing zone. He had no answer except to calm down a bit & say he didn't want to offend me, he was sorry etc. It illustrated to me how totally irresponsible folks can be with their own driving. How skewed folks see their driving habits & skills, especially when they are the slow moving road blocks on the road.

The irony of it all was this. As a former trained LEO, who specialized in traffic enforcement, I can forthrightly say my moves were entirely legal & safe. If any ticket could've been written it was to him for hogging the passing lane instead of slower traffic keep right except to pass.

These are the lessons we must also teach our kids in order that they stay safe & survive in a more and more hostile driving environment.

[wallypiper]

if someone exceeding the speed limit rear-ends my daughter doing the speed limit, the law will side with the one not speeding.

Right. You can put that on her headstone. "The law was on her side." Like it or not, the vast majority of people exceed the posted speed limit most of the time. If you don't, and you don't make allowances for that difference, you are putting yourself and others at higher risk of an accident. That's really all there is to it. It's situational awareness and courteous cooperation with other drivers. You don't have to do it. The law doesn't require you to do it. It's just common courtesy and common sense.

I drive I-285 north from Camp Creek to South Cobb a lot. That means I pass the interchange at I-20 a lot. Because I am situationally aware, I avoid the left lane approaching I-20 because I know that many of the trucks on the road need to get into that lane. It just amazes me how many people will scream up that lane, ignoring the situation, blocking the trucks from getting over and then, at the last minute, squeeze back over to the right because they don't want to get on I-20. It's not their speed that's dangerous, it's their refusal to take part in the cooperative effort that safe driving requires. It's not just about speed and speed limits. It's about being fully aware of the situation around you, anticipating what the other drivers want and need to do, and making it a point to facilitate everybody being able to do what they need to do in a safe manner.

[wallypiper]

if someone exceeding the speed limit rear-ends my daughter doing the speed limit, the law will side with the one not speeding.

Right. You can put that on her headstone. "The law was on her side." Like it or not, the vast majority of people exceed the posted speed limit most of the time. If you don't, and you don't make allowances for that difference, you are putting yourself and others at higher risk of an accident. That's really all there is to it. It's situational awareness and courteous cooperation with other drivers. You don't have to do it. The law doesn't require you to do it. It's just common courtesy and common sense.

I drive I-285 north from Camp Creek to South Cobb a lot. That means I pass the interchange at I-20 a lot. Because I am situationally aware, I avoid the left lane approaching I-20 because I know that many of the trucks on the road need to get into that lane. It just amazes me how many people will scream up that lane, ignoring the situation, blocking the trucks from getting over and then, at the last minute, squeeze back over to the right because they don't want to get on I-20. It's not their speed that's dangerous, it's their refusal to take part in the cooperative effort that safe driving requires. It's not just about speed and speed limits. It's about being fully aware of the situation around you, anticipating what the other drivers want and need to do, and making it a point to facilitate everybody being able to do what they need to do in a safe manner.

[GSX1R]

Right. You can put that on her headstone. "The law was on her side." Like it or not, the vast majority of people exceed the posted speed limit most of the time. If you don't, and you don't make allowances for that difference, you are putting yourself and others at higher risk of an accident. That's really all there is to it. It's situational awareness and courteous cooperation with other drivers. You don't have to do it. The law doesn't require you to do it. It's just common courtesy and common sense.

I drive I-285 north from Camp Creek to South Cobb a lot. That means I pass the interchange at I-20 a lot. Because I am situationally aware, I avoid the left lane approaching I-20 because I know that many of the trucks on the road need to get into that lane. It just amazes me how many people will scream up that lane, ignoring the situation, blocking the trucks from getting over and then, at the last minute, squeeze back over to the right because they don't want to get on I-20. It's not their speed that's dangerous, it's their refusal to take part in the cooperative effort that safe driving requires. It's not just about speed and speed limits. It's about being fully aware of the situation around you, anticipating what the other drivers want and need to do, and making it a point to facilitate everybody being able to do what they need to do in a safe manner.

I agree with you whole-hardly; my daughter would still be alive if the driver that rear ended us was aware period. Without going into any details, if people would drive with more sense and awareness (defensive) I'm sure there would not be as many accidents as there are in the Atlanta metro area. I've noticed that people can't drive down here in Atlanta. It's not that people can't drive; obviously they can operate a vehicle. I've heard people say that you have to drive aggressively in Atlanta. Knowing how to drive is a balance of offensive and defensive driving and knowing when to do what, situational driving.

[Back Marker]

Right. You can put that on her headstone. "The law was on her side." Like it or not, the vast majority of people exceed the posted speed limit most of the time. If you don't, and you don't make allowances for that difference, you are putting yourself and others at higher risk of an accident. That's really all there is to it. It's situational awareness and courteous cooperation with other drivers. You don't have to do it. The law doesn't require you to do it. It's just common courtesy and common sense.

I drive I-285 north from Camp Creek to South Cobb a lot. That means I pass the interchange at I-20 a lot. Because I am situationally aware, I avoid the left lane approaching I-20 because I know that many of the trucks on the road need to get into that lane. It just amazes me how many people will scream up that lane, ignoring the situation, blocking the trucks from getting over and then, at the last minute, squeeze back over to the right because they don't want to get on I-20. It's not their speed that's dangerous, it's their refusal to take part in the cooperative effort that safe driving requires. It's not just about speed and speed limits. It's about being fully aware of the situation around you, anticipating what the other drivers want and need to do, and making it a point to facilitate everybody being able to do what they need to do in a safe manner.

they already know to keep off the passing lane until they hone their skills. they also know not to cut people off when entering a left exit lane. they also know to give traffic plenty of room to match their speed when merging into their left exit lane. they aren't allowed to go 5 mph over the speed limit unless they are pursued by bad guys.

you make it sound like i'm putting their lives at stake by having them maintain the legal speed limit. it takes a highly skilled driver to do so. i hate to sound arrogant, but i consider myself a highly skilled driver (public roads, not scca). there is a safe way to merge onto a left exit lane while maintaining the speed limit. if you can't figure that out, then you need to learn to read traffic or pm me and we can do some on road training. the key is distance.

-a|ex

[Jet Jockey]

Right. You can put that on her headstone. "The law was on her side." Like it or not, the vast majority of people exceed the posted speed limit most of the time. If you don't, and you don't make allowances for that difference, you are putting yourself and others at higher risk of an accident. That's really all there is to it. It's situational awareness and courteous cooperation with other drivers. You don't have to do it. The law doesn't require you to do it. It's just common courtesy and common sense.

I drive I-285 north from Camp Creek to South Cobb a lot. That means I pass the interchange at I-20 a lot. Because I am situationally aware, I avoid the left lane approaching I-20 because I know that many of the trucks on the road need to get into that lane. It just amazes me how many people will scream up that lane, ignoring the situation, blocking the trucks from getting over and then, at the last minute, squeeze back over to the right because they don't want to get on I-20. It's not their speed that's dangerous, it's their refusal to take part in the cooperative effort that safe driving requires. It's not just about speed and speed limits. It's about being fully aware of the situation around you, anticipating what the other drivers want and need to do, and making it a point to facilitate everybody being able to do what they need to do in a safe manner.

This is exceptionally well said. Thx Wallypiper for some great & true thoughts. Especially important the themes of situational awareness + common sense + courtesy + fully aware cooperation + anticipation of all concurrent needs surrounding you as a driver.

These are the core values of a truly high performance driver who takes pride in the art & craft of piloting a machine on the road with expertise & practised skill that in turn enhances the safety of all around his / her expert efforts.

I'll never forget the reaction of my wife with me as a passenger in front seat & a copilot riding in back seat after I drove at highway speed, the 3 of us through an especially nasty multi-vehicle crash on I-285 some years back that really hurt some folks & several cars. Both of them exclaimed after things settled down after we drove away after stopping to help until EMTs & LEOs arrived: "I see now how racing cars on track like you do is a great benefit on the street. That race driving skill is what got us through that accident back there as it unfolded all around us." Yep! And these things can & should be taught to all drivers possible. It encompasses exactly the good stuff you have well described Wallypiper.

Thanks! ~ JJ

[Jet Jockey]

I agree with you whole-hardly; my daughter would still be alive if the driver that rear ended us was aware period. Without going into any details, if people would drive with more sense and awareness (defensive) I'm sure there would not be as many accidents as there are in the Atlanta metro area. I've noticed that people can't drive down here in Atlanta. It's not that people can't drive; obviously they can operate a vehicle. I've heard people say that you have to drive aggressively in Atlanta. Knowing how to drive is a balance of offensive and defensive driving and knowing when to do what, situational driving.

This too is very well said....knowing how to balance offense & defense in your driving is a key component of situationally aware driving.

But FAR more important than any of this is to say to you, "I"m truly saddened and sorry for the extreme loss you have suffered. I pray you will find peace & know that many care about you and your well-being." I too have lost a daughter - not to a traffic accident, botched hospital care, but nonetheless it hurts like nothing else.....

[wallypiper]

if you can't figure that out, then you need to learn to read traffic or pm me and we can do some on road training. the key is distance.


I can figure it out and I agree that the key is distance but the reality of driving in metro Atlanta traffic is that you don't always get the luxury of safe distances. If you want to get in a lane that's crowded, you just have to match the speed of the other cars in that lane. Once, there, you can certainly slow down gradually (make sure you apply or at least flash the brakes so the driver behind you knows your slowing) if you want and I would never tell somebody they have to take an exit ramp at a higher speed than they feel comfortable with.

I just spent a week in Guayaquil, Ecuador. It's a pretty large city with very heavy traffic. The way people drive there really stands my American trained hair on end. Lane markings are frequently ignored. People move from one line of cars to another with very little clearance but almost always use signals. Some areas are just amazing in the way that masses of cars move through them, merging, turning, yielding all without any collisions despite very close quarters. My taxi driver actually split lanes in his taxi a couple of times and he wasn't the only one. If there's room for your car, you can go there and the people around you will not just allow it but, unless you're actually in their way, facilitate it. The speeds aren't generally as high as on metro Atlanta expressways but the traffic is denser. It's very different. There doesn't seem to be any feeling of "owning" a lane. It's just all about everybody getting to the piece of road they want to be on without hitting each other. They do it amazingly well. Many of the moves would end up in some kind of road rage incident here but there they are just the way it's done.

[wallypiper]

if you can't figure that out, then you need to learn to read traffic or pm me and we can do some on road training. the key is distance.


I can figure it out and I agree that the key is distance but the reality of driving in metro Atlanta traffic is that you don't always get the luxury of safe distances. If you want to get in a lane that's crowded, you just have to match the speed of the other cars in that lane. Once, there, you can certainly slow down gradually (make sure you apply or at least flash the brakes so the driver behind you knows your slowing) if you want and I would never tell somebody they have to take an exit ramp at a higher speed than they feel comfortable with.

I just spent a week in Guayaquil, Ecuador. It's a pretty large city with very heavy traffic. The way people drive there really stands my American trained hair on end. Lane markings are frequently ignored. People move from one line of cars to another with very little clearance but almost always use signals. Some areas are just amazing in the way that masses of cars move through them, merging, turning, yielding all without any collisions despite very close quarters. My taxi driver actually split lanes in his taxi a couple of times and he wasn't the only one. If there's room for your car, you can go there and the people around you will not just allow it but, unless you're actually in their way, facilitate it. The speeds aren't generally as high as on metro Atlanta expressways but the traffic is denser. It's very different. There doesn't seem to be any feeling of "owning" a lane. It's just all about everybody getting to the piece of road they want to be on without hitting each other. They do it amazingly well. Many of the moves would end up in some kind of road rage incident here but there they are just the way it's done.

[Jet Jockey]

I can figure it out and I agree that the key is distance but the reality of driving in metro Atlanta traffic is that you don't always get the luxury of safe distances. If you want to get in a lane that's crowded, you just have to match the speed of the other cars in that lane. Once, there, you can certainly slow down gradually (make sure you apply or at least flash the brakes so the driver behind you knows your slowing) if you want and I would never tell somebody they have to take an exit ramp at a higher speed than they feel comfortable with.

I just spent a week in Guayaquil, Ecuador. It's a pretty large city with very heavy traffic. The way people drive there really stands my American trained hair on end. Lane markings are frequently ignored. People move from one line of cars to another with very little clearance but almost always use signals. Some areas are just amazing in the way that masses of cars move through them, merging, turning, yielding all without any collisions despite very close quarters. My taxi driver actually split lanes in his taxi a couple of times and he wasn't the only one. If there's room for your car, you can go there and the people around you will not just allow it but, unless you're actually in their way, facilitate it. The speeds aren't generally as high as on metro Atlanta expressways but the traffic is denser. It's very different. There doesn't seem to be any feeling of "owning" a lane. It's just all about everybody getting to the piece of road they want to be on without hitting each other. They do it amazingly well. Many of the moves would end up in some kind of road rage incident here but there they are just the way it's done.

I saw a very interesting scientific traffic study some time back that was trying to figure out why ants in a colony can be so darned efficient with little to no "accidents" in running into each other while doing extremely complex traffic flows as they scurry to & fro taking care of their business.

Whereas modern humans need huge amounts of artificial traffic devices to regulate us in order to accomodate one another.

Bottom line answer of the study was the inherent self-centeredness and selfishness we have that sets up conflicts on the road as all vie for the same space, try to out pace & force one's own desires upon others, etc.

The Ecuador culture seems to go somewhat against this hypothesis as you describe it. Interesting! I'm sure that they have a practised and culturally enforced accomodation pattern, but likely they ultimately have a significant accident rate too? Not sure. I've taveled in Mexico extensively and you see a similar thing as you've described in Ecuador. Yet Mexicans do have significant accidents as well.

One big difference between Mexico & say the USA. In USA EVERYONE drives, has car, has license, old, young, both genders, all income levels. In Mexico, by far the drivers are male, ages about 25 - 55. Not many young drivers. Not many older folks driving. Not many females driving. Only folks who can afford a car - which leaves out a lot of people. Makes for some interesting hypothesis & observations.