Between a Rock and an EXTREMELY Hard Place

[Matt.S]

Well when I thought things couldn't get any worse... They did. Here's the story:
I was planning on riding with Slim and others this morning and it had been a little while since my oil had been changed so I went to wal-mart last night and bought a Supertech filter and some Rotella T6 Fully Synthetic oil and was ready to tackle the task of changing my oil (really wasn't that hard). Well anyway I had everything back on and ready to go and I started pouring in the oil. Well in my lapse of memory I confused 3.8l with 3.8q of being the proper amount of fluid to use when replacing the filter, so needless to say I filled it .2l above what it needed. Well after I noticed this I went back and took off the drain plug, drained the oil for about a second, checked it and it seemed level (in the middle).

Well this morning, I got off to a terrible start. Woke up late, needed gas, dropped my card at the gas station (this hasn't really ever happened) which all added to my lateness. Things started to look better as I wasn't really held up by too much traffic. I drove all the way from Woodstock up 400, almost to the Chevron. I believe I was at the crossing of 400/19? Right by the Citgo, Waffle House, BP. Well I stopped at the Chevron to see if it was the one I was supposed to be at but I was directed up the street. I didn't noticed anything wrong with my bike, but I was also in a hurry. I pulled out made a left back onto 400 and drove less than a mile before I was doing 80 or so and I went to twist the throttle to pass a car and I felt nothing so I looked down at the gauge, down shifted and noticed the RPMS dropped; very similar to when my cbr600 f3 had a broken choke cable and it would cut off and have no power. Well I held in my clutch and pulled to the side of the road, Church something or other? Anyway I turned on and off my bike, tried to start it and it did nothing at all. I got off to see what was going on and I saw oil pouring from under my bike. I go to the right side of the bike to examine further and notice that there is a small amount of smoke in the oil level gauge :bigsadeyes:. I was wrecked, nearly in tears I called to try to find a friend with a truck and while trying to a man pulled over. Turns out he used to be a riding coach for some odd years and just retired, a man by the name of Jim Buckley. Well he pulls over, asks what happened I tell him and he tells me there's a motorcycle shop right up the road, Moto 400. I thought this was a god send, until I found out that my motor was seized. Mechanics told me I'd need a whole new bottom end. Apparently he tried to add oil and it wouldn't start so that's what they told me.

I can't believe this happened. I really need some help from anyone who can. I've never had anything like this happen to me and I can't afford to take it to a mechanic so I am hoping I can try to fix this in my garage with help from the information from you guys and the internet. I've been trying to search bottom end for my 06 636 but I can't find anything. I hope this can be fixed for a reasonable price because I was stuggling to spend $280 on a new set of tires seeing as I just had to fork over what I could for school and I am unemployed ATM... Can anyone tell me what my options are? Any mechanics here that can estimate what this could cost to fix? Apparently it was odd to the others that my bike just shut off.

Thanks in advance! Sorry for the long read.
-Matt

[Woodk61000]

Brutal! Call Dr.Dug or Marmo.

[joemama]

Did they say what caused it? Nothing you said makes me think it was your fault.

[Matt.S]

I mean, the drain plug fell out... They said it was believed to be from me not replacing the crush bolt?, or washer? Idk, I changed the oil on my CBR without any of that, but maybe I was just lucky with that one. I'm beating myself up trying to figure out what happened. They say I was riding like that for a while but I don't see how because when I stopped a fair amount of oil began pooring from my bike.

[cjbez07]

sorry to hear about all of this that went down on u today.. good luck with everything.. im not the mechanic kind of guy so i dont know much about any of this stuff.. lol.. but good luck with everything.. wish u the best of luck

Jaco

[joemama]

Damn that does suck bro! Sorry to hear it. Not replacing the washer I wouldn't think caused the plug to fall out, I've done it in the past as well. Not getting it tight enough, and/or possibly getting oil in the threads and on the mating surfaces could have caused it though. Did you allow the engine to cool down before you tried to turn it over again? Sometimes when they cool you can get them to turn over. Its definitely gonna need ripped apart though. Hopefully it may just need a boring and new pistons/rings. Still not cheap but alot better than a whole new bottom end.

[ramm]

:eek: Not good at all, at least you didn't go down. Oil+rubber = not good.

[Matt.S]

There was oil on the mating surface of the bolt, but that's happened in previous oil changes with no problems? I may be 100% wrong but i've heard it recommended you put fresh oil on the bolt. This may have been my full problem because in draining the oil the bolt got a lot of new oil on it and I just put it back in and tightened it back up.

My bike never overheated. It was I believe 179F when it failed. The shop said they put oil in it and tried it. Now I believe there's no oil in my bike so I guess they removed it too but idk why they would.

[Jared]

At least your bike has a big parts market. If you have to go the new motor route it won't be *too* painful, nor would be parting it out (worst case).

My RC51 spun a bearing, and the replacement motor I ordered off ebay was filled with rust (apparently was sitting outside in the rain). Ended up parting the entire bike bolt by bolt. That whole ordeal was a nightmare, but I got my money back to about 90%.

[Matt.S]

I would absolutely love avoiding the part out option... It does not sound fun.

[U.F.O.]

My bike never overheated. It was I believe 179F when it failed. The shop said they put oil in it and tried it. Now I believe there's no oil in my bike so I guess they removed it too but idk why they would.

Depending on RPMS if you ran all the oil out of the crank bearing journals you'd just seize. Water cooled engines don't rely on oil so much for cooling.

[Woodk61000]

Damn! Ive never cleaned the drain plug on anything ive owned or changed the oil in and ive never had a problem. So im not too sure about that one. Maybe you didnt tighten it all the way or something? Either way, look on ebay. there are tons of bikes like yours that are stunted and you could probably come across a motor for cheap.

[Matt.S]

Difference between mine and a stunted on is mine has 6200mi and a stunted one is probably a pos. I'd like to figure out if I can find what needs replacing. I found some oil in the fairing it felt a little thick ish, not sure if it's from the grime

[PhilJonez]

Matt.S, this makes me sick for you, can't even imagine (I'm in school myself, and supporting my street and tracks bike is NOT easy so I feel your pain!!!!). Best of luck fixing up, wish i could offer more help (ummmm, if you ever need help changing your oil, I can help with that...)

[Over TWO Customs]

Your best course of action is to source a motor and swap yours. Even if all you need is bottom end work, you will not know that until the motor has been taken out and split and that costs money. Parts, machine time, assembly, it all adds up quick. Im not sure what part of town you're on but I'd take it to Livengood Motorsports.

[wallypiper]

I also have never even though about trying to get the oil off the drain bolt before putting it back in and I have never had a drain bolt fall out. But plenty of people HAVE had the drain bolt fall out for whatever reason. It has to come down to "wasn't tightened properly" in the end. It's just a bolt in a threaded hole. The crush washer does make some difference but they're not always easy to find so I've done plenty of oil changes without a new one. Some people say they have never changed it. Honestly, it sounds like your head was a little out of alignment (overfill, dropped card) and maybe in the overfill and drain thing you just never really tightened the drain bolt back up. By the way, on most bikes, the oil level indicator is not necessarily valid right after you do a drain and fill, especially when you change the filter. You need to run the motor to pump some oil into the various galleys and passages and get the filter completely full and then shut it off and let it drain back for a minute and THEN check the sight glass. Not positive that's true on your bike but it's common. I don't know that I would have bothered to drain 0.2 L out of a 3.8 L fill. It probably isn't that critical. A bike can run a long time with LOW oil levels as long as the pump pickup is covered so that oil is being pumped.

At any rate, I'd try turning the engine over by hand before I did anything else. You can generally take the cover off the case and get to a large nut that you can turn to turn the crank. It is not easy with the plugs in but you should be able to tell if the engine is truly seized or not. Compression is spongy. Seized is seized.

[Gamecock]

I would absolutely love avoiding the part out option... It does not sound fun.

I parted out my perfect running FZ1 from May until now. The used bike market is really soft and I needed to sell and needed the money. If you have the time & patience its not that bad parting a bike. The last few parts I have are being sold over the next couple weeks.

Sorry to hear about your bike. At the very least I would take it to Huey or Huff Daddy and let them take a second look at it and give you some options. I'd also get on these forums and ask questions:
http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/forum/
http://www.kawiforums.com/search.php?searchid=912241

[Matt.S]

Ugh... This get worse and worse every day. I'd hate the fact to have to swap out engines on this bike considering this one is supposed to have pretty low miles. I still dunno what I'm going to do at this point, I'd really like to know what parts I need to be checking out to see what the problem is. I can't afford to have a shop look at it $80 is not within my budget by any means.

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

Wally, low oil is better than too much oil. Too much oil causes cavitation, causes froth, causes oil in your airbox (through the crank case vent), and can cause more problems. But everything else you said, I agree with completely.


Matt.S: If $80 isn't within your budget, you need to part this bike. I'm sorry, but that's all there is to it. You don't sound mechanically minded from your posts (Not criticizing by any means, just observing), so you're more than likely not going to be able to do the work yourself. It'll cost well more than $80 just to have shop drop the engine (As far as I remember, most shops in the area, $80 is about one hour of labor), then they have to split the cases, figure out what's fried, and then you need new parts, assembly time (again, at $80/hr), and then put the engine back in. If you were a tinkerer, you could theoretically do it yourself in a garage with stands/the right tools, but it doesn't sound like you should attempt that. That being said, you might could do a whole engine swap yourself, as there's a lot less tinkering and a lot more matching hoses and bolt holes up.

[Derrick]

I know this is after the fact, but you can safety wire your oil filter to your drain plug to ensure that neither come loose again. Hate it for you man, hope you can get it sorted without it knocking too big of a hole in your pocket.

[Matt.S]

Where as I may not sound like a mechanical genius, if I have info etc the job is not hard. You'll never learn how to do something unless you try and I don't see the damage in taking my engine apart if I have to part my bike out anyway? I've got a few friends who are familiar with car engines etc, I was really thinking that we would take it on.

When I said $80 isn't it my budget, I mean for labor. I'll of course have to come up with money necessary to replace the parts that need to be replaced but labor will be done by myself and anyone else who would like to help.

So any service manuals or anything that could guide me on my journey? This will be done, I just have to know and if I have to part out my bike I'm getting some knowledge out of how these engines work so I don't remain ignorant.

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

There's gotta be Ninja specific forums. You'd have much better luck checking on a forum specific to your bike. I'm sure some of the Kawasaki guys will chime in.

[ga_skyline_rydr]

Have you tried cranking it by hand as Wally described?

[cjbez07]

kawiforums.com someone there might be able to help u.. i know what u mean by do it ur self..heck i had to rewire most of my bike when i changed it into a street fighter then after i did all that i did not like it so had to re wire almost the whole bike..and im colour blind... haha..it was not fun..all i got to say is good luck with it all man.. things happen for a reason.. now while u got the motor out.. why not do some work to it..haha.. bore it put bigger pistons i it.. lol.. good luck bro and take care

Jaco

[Matt.S]

Haha Jaco, you read my mind. Like I said I got a lot of buddies who work on cars, I definitely planned to see if there was a way to make more power out of this problem of mine, TBH I was about to do something to it because my low end power started to feel kinda shot. Either way, I'm gonna pull this bitch out, take it apart and try to get something good outta somethin bad.

If anyone has anymore suggestions or anything like that please feel free to chime in. Any tips on taking an engine out? Do I need a rear stand or can I do it on the kick stand?

[ZeroAccess]

Your going to want to check your particular bike its easiest when you can hang it on something by a rope like a ladder or hell the ceiling.

It sounds like you haven't done any checks at all to the bike yet though. Have you spun the engine by hand before removing it?
No offense man but your going to lose your ass in this if you don't think about it first. I purchased an 01 ZX6E thinking I could do this and lost like 2k. Ended up selling it in literally 6,000 pieces.

Stop, be smart and don't tear up more shit than you already did.

The fact that your asking us if u need a rear stand or can use the kickstand proves to me you haven't researched it at all because that would be an incredibly easy answer to find.

I'm not trying to be mean or rude but you need more knowledge before tearing down an engine and rebuilding it. Replacing the engine may be up your ally but I doubt you even have the tools needed to properly do the job.

If you really need help and located near Powder Springs I'll see if I can help you but like you I'm unemployed and going to two schools at the moment. Times something I don't have a lot of.


Edit : http://www.mediafire.com/?8ouahrtu8rcdm6j to receive the Manual not sure how long it'll stay there if you have any problems let me know.

[ZeroAccess]

Engine Removal
•Support the rear part of the swingarm with a stand.

•Squeeze the brake lever slowly and hold it with a band.

WARNING
Be sure to hold the front brake when removing the
engine, or the motorcycle may fall over. It could
cause an accident and injury.

CAUTION
Be sure to hold the front brake when removing the
engine, or the motorcycle may fall over. The engine
or the motorcycle could be damaged.

•Drain:
Engine Oil (see Engine Oil Change in the Periodic Maintenance
chapter)

Coolant (see Coolant Change in the Periodic Maintenance
chapter)

•Remove:
Right and Left Center Fairings (see Center Fairing Removal
in the Frame chapter)

Fuel Tank (see Fuel Tank Removal in the Fuel System
(DFI) chapter)

Air Cleaner Housing (see Air Cleaner Housing Removal
in the Fuel System (DFI) chapter)

Throttle Body Assy (see Throttle Body Assy Removal in
the Fuel System (DFI) chapter)

Clutch Cable Lower End (see Clutch Cable Removal in
the Clutch chapter)

Radiator (see Radiator and Radiator Fan Removal in the
Cooling System chapter)

Exhaust Pipe (see Exhaust Pipe Removal in the Engine
Top End chapter)

Shift Lever (see Shift Pedal Removal in the Crankshaft/
Transmission chapter)

Engine Sprocket (see Engine Sprocket Removal in the
Final Drive chapter)

Coolant Reserve Tank (see Coolant Reserve Tank Removal
in the Cooling System chapter)

•Pull off the connectors from the engine and free the wiring
from the clamps.

•Remove:
Engine Ground Cable Terminal Bolt [A]
Starter Motor Lead [B]
Connectors [C]
Stick Coil Harness Connector (see Stick Coil (Ignition
Coil together with Spark Plug Cap) Removal in the Electrical
System chapter)

•Support the engine with a suitable stand [A].
○Put a plank [B] onto the suitable stand for engine balance.

•Remove:
Right and Left Upper Engine Mounting Bolts [A]

•Using the nut wrench [A], loosen the locknut [B].
Special Tool - Engine Mount Nut Wrench: 57001-1450

•Using the Hexagon Wrench, turn the adjusting collar [A]
counterclockwise to make the gap between the engine
and collar.

•Remove the middle and lower engine mounting nuts.

•Turn the middle and lower mounting bolts [A] clockwise to
make the gap between the collar and frame.

•Pull out the engine mounting bolts from the right side.

•Remove the drive chain from the output shaft.

•Using the stand, take out the engine.

[Taken from http://www.zxforums.com/forums/mechanical-technical/27293-help-removal-06-zx6r-engine-off-frame.html ]

[keevo54]

Definately need to part out. Otherwise you will just be throwing money away and will probably have problems getting everything back up and running

[NiceGuysFinishLast]

, TBH I was about to do something to it because my low end power started to feel kinda shot.

Then you were developing problems before this.