What's the point of a green card then?

[Hammerhead]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immigration-employers-20100904,0,5792545.story?track=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+latimes%2Fnews%2Fnationworld% 2Fnation+%28L.A.+Times+-+National+News%29

"Before this year, Phoenix-area community colleges asked legal immigrants to show a green card before hiring them. The Justice Department calls the policy 'document abuse' and seeks damages."

"Reporting from Washington — Employers who hire illegal immigrants can be fined, but the Obama administration warned this week that they also can be fined for asking legal immigrants to show their green cards before hiring them.

The Justice Department's civil rights division sued the Maricopa County Community Colleges in Arizona, seeking damages from schools for having 'intentionally committed document abuse discrimination.' "

[DecepticonDon]

bring legal actions against employers who impose "unnecessary and discriminatory hurdles to employment for work-authorized noncitizens."

How does "I need to see your green card" apply.


methinks this is getting back at AZ for their immigration law.....

[impalanar]

How do you know they are a legal immigrant, unless you ask for documentation?

[TarzanMan]

All the jobs I have been hired for ask for a social security number. Not sure how you get one of those without being a legal resident.

Also, the problem with employers asking for green cards is that it can be construed as discriminatory. Citizens don't have green cards... thus the (legal) argument would be a double standard applied at the subjective discretion of the employer (why does person A need a green card yet person B doesn't). Any decent lawyer would have countless precedents from rulings/trials involving segregation to draw a parallel to.

This country just has a demonstrably poor history with using similar laws to discriminate against people who aren't caucasian. That being said, I'm sure that Bush and Cheney wouldn't have a problem with this policy, lol

There's also the fact that not all immigrants need green cards to work in this country (work visas).

[Jector]

If they asked anyone who came in their office for a green card first, I could see a problem with that. If they're asking people who are legal immigrants for a green card then they are asking for as much documentation as possible to stay legal so they don't get fined. How many government forms have people on here filled out where they didn't ask for a buttload more info than they need for something relatively simple? The government has always asked for every scrap of info it can get and God help you if you didn't cross a "t" while filling it out.

This administration is moronically backwards and consistently inconsistent even more than the previous one and that takes some special effort. Emphasis on "special".

[wallypiper]

I've never been asked for a green card. Why should anybody who has a social security number (you can't legally get one without either being a citizen or a legal resident) be asked for one? I understand the argument about verifying somebody's status but it doesn't hold water. The SSA is required to issue a SSN to all legal residents at entry. An employer is required to check the SSN of a prospective employee with the SSA which verifies that the name/number combination is valid and eligible for employment. Anybody that has a SSN that passes the SSA verification is eligible to be hired. That's not what a green card is for.

[Jector]

If the prospective employee can provide an SS card and a drivers license or some other valid picture ID then I'd say that would be sufficient. Many may not have a DL which means, almost certainly, no picture ID which would be a very appropriate time to ask for a green card with their image on it to try and verify their status.

In any event, the government should have made it very, very clear that getting caught employing illegals with fake ID and NO green card would be just fine with the feds. But I'd imagine they'd get those fines levied and chastised for not checking their employees properly. This is the issue the employers are stating; "Fine us if we hire illegals or fine us if we check extra paperwork to try to ensure that they ARE legal."

[impalanar]

If the prospective employee can provide an SS card and a drivers license or some other valid picture ID then I'd say that would be sufficient. Many may not have a DL which means, almost certainly, no picture ID which would be a very appropriate time to ask for a green card with their image on it to try and verify their status.

In any event, the government should have made it very, very clear that getting caught employing illegals with fake ID and NO green card would be just fine with the feds. But I'd imagine they'd get those fines levied and chastised for not checking their employees properly. This is the issue the employers are stating; "Fine us if we hire illegals or fine us if we check extra paperwork to try to ensure that they ARE legal."

This.

[cjbez07]

this is funny.. i am from South Africa.. and have a green card.. wich 99% of americans dont even know that a green card is not green.. lol also..ssn is easy to get.. when u come to america with a work visa u can get a ssn.. and when your work visa expires this makes you illegal .. but u still have a ssn..i know plenty of people that is ilegal in america but they can get driver liscenses and all that stuff.. bc they got the paper work.. they just cant get a green card also.. without a green card u can not become a citizen.. when ever i apply for a job.. it is actually a must as a non citizen to show my green card when applying for a job also i am suppose to carry my green card on me at ALL times.. its all there in the "USA rulebook" lol.. just got to read the fine prints..

Jaco

[wallypiper]

Jaco, most of us know it's not green now, just due to all the media attention to immigration over the last few years. As for qualifying for employment, there are a few documents that cover it by themselves. Present one of them and that's it. Employer, by law, can't require anything else. Then there are a variety of pairs of documents that can be presented. One of them does NOT have to be a green card although you are required to carry your green card, a prospective employer is not allowed to require you to show it if you provide one of the other acceptable documents or combinations of documents. Generally, the pairs consist of some form of personal identification, most driver's licenses qualify, and some form of work authorization. A SS card without any restrictions on it is work authorization. If an employer requires you to provide more that that, they are violating the law.

[KTM Rider]

is the fed simply pushing AZ to secede? at what point does a state simply tell the fed to go **** itself?

[Ablev1]

This is the site the gov't wants companies to use to verify employment eligibility. We use it and it seems to work.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCR D&vgnextchannel=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190a RCRD

[MrBlah]

we use it, and it dont work at all

[MONICA]

I think the feds are only doing this so that they can push for a national id card system to be implemented as part of immigration reform. They will argue that we need a national id card in order to be "fair" to everyone. If they have to use the racial discrimination line of bull to do it, they will.

Just my two cents.

[Jector]

So if employers can't ask to see a green card and law enforcement can't ask to see a green card, I'm with Hammerhead; what's the f*cking point of issuing them? "Here's your green card. Make sure you don't show it to anyone, ever!" Isn't it supposed to be proof of your legal presence in the US and ability to seek employment?

I'm telling the next cop that asks to see my drivers license that he's descriminating against me in assuming that I don't have a drivers license.

[winmutt]

Everyjob I have had just asked for proof of residency. Current/valid drivers license is all that should be needed. No reason to require a green card unless you dont have a drivers license.

[impalanar]

Everyjob I have had just asked for proof of residency. Current/valid drivers license is all that should be needed. No reason to require a green card unless you dont have a drivers license.

Then they are not following the law.

You need either one of the following:

* U.S. Passport (Unexpired or expired)

* Unexpired foreign Passport with I-551 Stamp or attached INS Form I-94 indicating unexpired employment authorization

* Alien Registration Receipt Card with photograph (INS Form I-151 or I-551)

* Unexpired Temporary Resident Card (INS Form I-688)

* Unexpired Employment Authorization Card (INS Form I-688A)

* Unexpired Employment Authorization Document issued by the INS which contains a photograph (INS Form I-688B)

Or

One from each of the following lists:


* Driver's license or ID card issued by a state or outlying possession of the United States provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, sex, height, eye color, and address

* ID card issued by federal, state or local government agencies or entities provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, sex, height, eye color, and address

* School ID card with a photograph

* Voter's registration card

* U.S. Military card or draft record

* Military dependent's ID card

* U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner Card

* Native American tribal document

* Driver's license issued by a Canadian government authority


For persons under age 18 who are unable to present a document listed above, valid documents include:

* School record or report card

* Clinic, doctor, or hospital record

* Day-care or nursery school record



* U.S. social security card issued by the Social Security Administration (other than a card stating it is not valid for employment)

* Certification of Birth Abroad issued by the Department of State (Form FS-545 or form DS-1350)

* Original or certified copy of a birth certificate issued by a state, county, municipal authority or outlying possession of the United States bearing an official seal

* Native American Tribal document

* Unexpired Employment Authorization document issued by the INS (other than those listed under List A)

[winmutt]

Ah yes, DL and SS card. Still. No reason to ask for a green card if I have those two.