Tire ? .... ...

[cjbez07]

I was just wondering what are the pros and cons about running a 190 tire on a 600 bike. (180 rim) ..

Thanks
Jaco

[Lazarus]

Its my understanding that its a waste unless you are on a track and running a good pace. They are more expensive. Offers more contact patch at lean though.

[cjbez07]

well it just keeps my tire range options a little bigger when it comes to sales, etc. i just want to know if it is worth it if i can find some on a good deal, etc. etc.

[ramm]

More contact patch. Less flick.

I could barely tell the difference running a 190 compared to the 180 to be honest.

[RogueElement]

And with the speeds you'd be running, a 180 would be fine. :up:

You're not going to find too many sales where a 190 will go for cheaper than a 180.

[cjbez07]

More contact patch. Less flick.

I could barely tell the difference running a 190 compared to the 180 to be honest.

i know what a 190 tire feels like its a little more work but thats fine, and ya the 180 does handle nice, i just want a thumbs up from the guys that has riden for many many many years first, and have the experience in it.. lol.. if u know what i mean lol

[everyday3]

With a 190 you are going to get less of a contact patch the rim is not made for a 190 so putting a 190 on there actully changes the shape and form of the tire. Cant tell by looking at it but its there. Sport bike magazine did a big articale on this a couple years ago. Showed thermils of the to contact patch it was crazy to see what a differance that change ing the shape of the tire could have on on the contact patch.

[ramm]

If you're buying new, get a 180.

[Nikk777]

With a 190 you are going to get less of a contact patch the rim is not made for a 190 so putting a 190 on there actully changes the shape and form of the tire. Cant tell by looking at it but its there. Sport bike magazine did a big articale on this a couple years ago. Showed thermils of the to contact patch it was crazy to see what a differance that change ing the shape of the tire could have on on the contact patch.

WRONG!!!! When will people please stop spreading this crap that they heard from some idiot or read in an article that got it all wrong? I race a 200 on my ZX6R (600 with a 5.5" rim). Why? Because Dunlop specifications call for a 5.5" OR a 6" rim. Dunlop doesn't even make a 180 racing tire!!! Who do you think knows more about the tires being made? Magazine writers or the folks actually engineering and making the tires?

As for cost... the 180's are usually always cheaper.
It all depends on the manufacturer and what they specify for that particular tire. Look up the specs on the tires you are considering. Some tires because of the side wall construction and engineering cannot be put on a smaller rim, others can. The blanket statement that a 190 needs a 6" rim is old, uniformed, crap that is simply WRONG. You gotta refer to the manf's specs.

As for flickability, the 200 flicks as quick as the 190 did to me. Not sure i'd see a difference between the 180 and 190 either? But when I lean over in a race and drag my shin....(top of my boot at my calf was worn) along with my knee and boot.... I'm happy with the 200!!!

As for cost....the 180 is usually cheaper.

[Todd]

Simmer down Nikk, I'm pretty sure he's asking about street tires. :up:

As for the rest of your rant, you are correct, about DUNLOP tires. Is not always true on other brands, and yes, any tire you're considering going with, look at the specs to see if it requires a 5.5 or 6 inch rim.

I've ridden both sizes myself on my 04 R6, and as for handling, I can't tell the difference between a 180 and 190. Yes the wider the tire the more contact patch you'll have at lean, but, for me personally, a 200 is simply too damn heavy and robs too much Hp on a 600, maybe not enuff to notice on a 130hp motor, but on mine it does make a big difference.

[Nikk777]

Simmer down Nikk, I'm pretty sure he's asking about street tires. :up:

As for the rest of your rant, you are correct, about DUNLOP tires. Is not always true on other brands, and yes, any tire you're considering going with, look at the specs to see if it requires a 5.5 or 6 inch rim.

I've ridden both sizes myself on my 04 R6, and as for handling, I can't tell the difference between a 180 and 190. Yes the wider the tire the more contact patch you'll have at lean, but, for me personally, a 200 is simply too damn heavy and robs too much Hp on a 600, maybe not enuff to notice on a 130hp motor, but on mine it does make a big difference.

going through the sets of tires I did....and with my posts for selling... I ran into this over and over and over again... It just shows that people take the guy in the next pit over's word of mouth as gospel and never ask or refer to the people that made the tire....and then condemn others for going against what they think is wrong and crying about safety and such. I literally had a guy post that I was endangering lives and that something should happen to me for that because I was selling a 200 as a 600 tire.... insanity.

As for the weight of the tire....I'd say the 100lbs i got on the competition hinders me more then the minute weight difference of a 200 vs. a 190.... yeah yeah...static weight vs. kinetic weight or inertia weight or whatever the spinning engine hindering weight word is.... A lil 600 just can't pull a greasy string out of a cats butt if I'm on it in comparison to the typical 140lb racer.... I went with extra grip vs. weight savings cause the added corner speed helped me in my chase of the umpalumpa's where trying to drag race left me sucking exhaust....

[Lazarus]

Todd what size are you running? I'm thinking about getting the Q2s in 190.

[Derrick]

I've ran a 190 rear and couldn't really tell any difference, but then again I'm not all that fast.

[cjbez07]

Thanks Nikki, and Todd .. This is more on the line of what i was looking to hear. I plan on buying take offs and or new depending on the prices, i have seen places where they just could not sell the 190's like they wanted to and mark them down a good bit, But i find this thread very useful to me and want to thank everyone. Ill check out the specs before purchase no doubt.. Thanks again

Jaco

[cjbez07]

Just checked out the specs on a couple of tires, the Q2 is recommended on both 5.5 or 6.. for both 180 and 190 .. so glad i asked the question.. ill be picking me up a nice set of tires this after noon then.. gosh.. ill be back on the road in about a week then.. haha

[Lazarus]

Yea I think you have to get the 190/55 vs the 190/50.

[ramm]

Yea I think you have to get the 190/55 vs the 190/50.

Yes. ^^

190/55 is made for the 5.5 OR 6 in rims. I believe all 600's have 5.5'' rims.

[cjbez07]

Yea I think you have to get the 190/55 vs the 190/50.

according to Dunlop either or is fine..

[cjbez07]

http://www.dunlopmotorcycle.com/tirecatalog_tire.asp?id=108

[Lazarus]

according to Dunlop either or is fine..

You need to read some of this thread: http://www.georgiasportbike.com/showthread.php?6837-Using-a-190-on-a-600&highlight=patch

Started by yours truly, you'll learn a bunch. Get the 190/55, not the 50.

[cjbez07]

You need to read some of this thread: http://www.georgiasportbike.com/showthread.php?6837-Using-a-190-on-a-600&highlight=patch

Started by yours truly, you'll learn a bunch. Get the 190/55, not the 50.

im not sure what you where asking on that thread..lol other than almost the same question and i dont feel like sitting there and reading it all.. ahha.. thanks though brotha.. i always buy 55 over 50.. but most of the time i buy what feels good to me.. i have been throught conti. mich. dun. bridge. and pirelli.. and i ride with what i feel comfertable with .. i just wanted to get peoples insite on they thing about the tires, if its a good/bad and i go from there.. remember everyone is different.. what one person my like .. another person might hate..

Thanks for the info no doubt.. and if i get teh 190's they will be 55's just because thats what i have ran on in the past and love the feel.. but if i dont like them.. then ill try something els.. heck tires last what 3k miles on the street.. if u actually ride your bike then u will have a set to try out in a matter of a couple of months.. so its not a big deal.. lol

[RogueElement]

http://www.r6-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48090&d=1278903951

[cjbez07]

http://www.r6-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48090&d=1278903951

Thanks arrsshole.. im colorblind :fyou: .... hahaha

[Lazarus]

Well nikk and a couple others explained that numbers are just numbers. The 190/55 was designed specifically for the 600 whereas the 190/50 wasn't, even though it might fit on a 5.5 rim.

[cjbez07]

Well nikk and a couple others explained that numbers are just numbers. The 190/55 was designed specifically for the 600 whereas the 190/50 wasn't, even though it might fit on a 5.5 rim.

:up: thanks.. well ill give them a wirl and liek mentioned before ride with what i feel comfertable with.. im iffy about getting off of my pirelli Rossos.. i just really love them but so much good has been talked about the Q2 i just have to give them a shot when i get a new set..

[Nikk777]

going from a pirelli to a dunlop is a very obvious change to the rider. Tire construction is totally different. you feel more of the road/bumps with the pirelli then you will with the dunlop from what I've heard and read. The pirelli has a soft carcass where the dunlop has a stiff one. This is also why a dunlop 190 and 200 can run on a 5.5" rim where a pirelli might not. I've not ridden the pirelli but have read many people's explanation of them for on track experience... thus take what I say with some salt... But note the differences in tire height as that will probably affect your geometry some. Might be noticeable, might not. Some riders like a lot of feedback from the road/bumps, some don't. Thus you tune your suspension for that and if that's not enough, you select appropriate tires for your riding style.

Just some worthless ramblings...

[cjbez07]

going from a pirelli to a dunlop is a very obvious change to the rider. Tire construction is totally different. you feel more of the road/bumps with the pirelli then you will with the dunlop from what I've heard and read. The pirelli has a soft carcass where the dunlop has a stiff one. This is also why a dunlop 190 and 200 can run on a 5.5" rim where a pirelli might not. I've not ridden the pirelli but have read many people's explanation of them for on track experience... thus take what I say with some salt... But note the differences in tire height as that will probably affect your geometry some. Might be noticeable, might not. Some riders like a lot of feedback from the road/bumps, some don't. Thus you tune your suspension for that and if that's not enough, you select appropriate tires for your riding style.

Just some worthless ramblings...

^ this is not worthless rambling.. to me worthless rambling is when someone tells u that u can not ride in this and u can only do this in that.. if u know what i mean.. like u said.. every person has there different likes .. and every person has there different feel for things.. i still yet need to learn how to tinker with suspension.. but for now im trying to find my comfort/like zone on different tires.. and the only way to do so is get them and try them.. :up: thanks again Nikki for the "worthless rambling" lol

[Todd]

i rode the Pirelli's for 5 years before switching to the superior grip of the new Dunlops. With that being said, tire technology has come a LONG way in the last 5 years, but yes, typically Pirelli has a much softer carcass, but that didnt mean you could or couldnt feel the feedback from the tires. All it meant was the suspension took a completely different setup for that same feel that i get now on the Dunlops. Feel of bumps and just how much feedback you like is completely rider preference. For YEARS, i didnt WANT to feel any bumps. As Thermosman told me "dude, you want to ride a couch, so thats how i'm gonna set up your bike", and thats the way i rode it for a long time. Since then, my preference has changed, i WANT to feel everything i can, THAT is how you know just how far you can push. The bike, suspension, and tires talk to ya, its up to you to be able to listen and understand what its saying.

5 years ago, pirelli didnt make a 190 rear for the 5.5 inch rim, i know this for a fact cus i tried one on my 600 and it was like riding a damn balloon. I rode it for about 4 laps around Jennings, pitted in and promptly took it off. These days, i think just about all the tire manf's are building the 190's for the 5.5" rim. I personally hated the 180. I like to get on the gas early, and there just isnt enuff side grip to get on the gas without the tire spinning up on that tire. With the 190 or 200, especially on the 600cc bikes, its absolutely AMAZING just how soon and how hard you can get on the gas coming out of a corner.

With all that being said, Bridgestone has just come out with a new tire, the R10, and everything im reading is that its every bit as good as the Dunlop NTEC, at $150/set less. Dunlop NTECS have phenomenal grip, and i absolutely LOVE the tire, but in the last couple of years, they keep changing the compounds making them last less and less and less. At one time, i was going thru one rear tire every 2 weekends. Now, the grip is still amazing, but im chewing one up in one day. I'm going to test a set of the new R10's at Barber in July.

[Lazarus]

I'm going to get a 190. I was spinning the heck outta my rear my last two days outings.

[ltyson]

I'm going to get a 190. I was spinning the heck outta my rear my last two days outings.

On your 600? What tire where you running? I assume based on the above comment that you are riding on a stock rear shock.

Ltyson

[Lazarus]

On your 600? What tire where you running? I assume based on the above comment that you are riding on a stock rear shock.

Ltyson

600RR, Michelin 2ct front and rear (btw I hear these tires arent all that on the track) and yes, stock rear shock. Why you mention the shock?

[ltyson]

600RR, Michelin 2ct front and rear (btw I hear these tires arent all that on the track) and yes, stock rear shock. Why you mention the shock?

Because you should not be spinning up the tire on any stock 600 to the point where you think you need to switch to a 190. I have no idea of your speed but my guess is we could put Todd on your bike and he would probably shave off 6 seconds of time (sorry Todd it may be 16 secs for all I know lol) with the same exact setup.

If you had a decent 180 tire and were getting that much spinning I would say your rear shock was the culprit for sure, but it could be that you are super fast and the 2ct's are just not up to the task. But if you put a 180 race tire on there and are still spinning it up so much than I would be looking at the shock.

Ltyson

[Todd]

all depends on WHERE youre spinning up the rear.

[ltyson]

all depends on WHERE youre spinning up the rear.

Point taken, but my guess is at his pace, he should not be spinning it up that much anywhere.

Ltyson

[Lazarus]

All I know is when passing fools in the bowl? I'm on the gas after the apex and the rear was sliding bad. I think I mentioned it to Todd before. It could also just be the wear on the tires themselves. That was the second track day and about 2k miles but they were sliding on the first track day. But it could be my technique too.

[cjbez07]

i rode the Pirelli's for 5 years before switching to the superior grip of the new Dunlops. With that being said, tire technology has come a LONG way in the last 5 years, but yes, typically Pirelli has a much softer carcass, but that didnt mean you could or couldnt feel the feedback from the tires. All it meant was the suspension took a completely different setup for that same feel that i get now on the Dunlops. Feel of bumps and just how much feedback you like is completely rider preference. For YEARS, i didnt WANT to feel any bumps. As Thermosman told me "dude, you want to ride a couch, so thats how i'm gonna set up your bike", and thats the way i rode it for a long time. Since then, my preference has changed, i WANT to feel everything i can, THAT is how you know just how far you can push. The bike, suspension, and tires talk to ya, its up to you to be able to listen and understand what its saying.

5 years ago, pirelli didnt make a 190 rear for the 5.5 inch rim, i know this for a fact cus i tried one on my 600 and it was like riding a damn balloon. I rode it for about 4 laps around Jennings, pitted in and promptly took it off. These days, i think just about all the tire manf's are building the 190's for the 5.5" rim. I personally hated the 180. I like to get on the gas early, and there just isnt enuff side grip to get on the gas without the tire spinning up on that tire. With the 190 or 200, especially on the 600cc bikes, its absolutely AMAZING just how soon and how hard you can get on the gas coming out of a corner.

With all that being said, Bridgestone has just come out with a new tire, the R10, and everything im reading is that its every bit as good as the Dunlop NTEC, at $150/set less. Dunlop NTECS have phenomenal grip, and i absolutely LOVE the tire, but in the last couple of years, they keep changing the compounds making them last less and less and less. At one time, i was going thru one rear tire every 2 weekends. Now, the grip is still amazing, but im chewing one up in one day. I'm going to test a set of the new R10's at Barber in July.

Thanks for the info.. i can honestly say this thread has really been a big help, aspecialy listing to you ol.....der guys.. haha.. u are right tires change like day to day.. and i love my rosso tires.. but they ate away in about 1500-2000 miles on the street.. lol.. that being said.. i think i am going to change up to 190 get familiar with it and start testing my waters with different tires.. also got to learn how to do the hole suspension thing.. i have always loved my suspension stiff and the feel of the road.. enjoy it more than the soft suspension so ill definitly have to look up on how to tinker with it a bit and maybe get some feed back with the more gooder guys..

Thanks again and let us know about the R10 tires.. i wouldnt mind knowing how they run..

Jaco

[Wheedle]

Suspension will make a HUGE difference in how the tires work and how they last.

As far as the old crotchety bastards were saying about tires changing in 5 years... I was pulling shit last week on the Strom last week on Tourances that I wouldnt have tried on the FZ1 on sticky supersticky-super-sport rubber. Of course... a few more years of experience and decent suspension help too.

[Ga-Bandit]

600RR, Michelin 2ct front and rear (btw I hear these tires arent all that on the track) and yes, stock rear shock. Why you mention the shock?


which 2ct - they'll all 2cts now. The Power Pilot 2ct?

[Lazarus]

Speaking of suspension I understand that a stock 600 supersport suspension can handle most mortal riders out there in terms of "outriding" it. I was always under the impression that because of this suspension is one of those things you modify when you get faster eg when you are turning X times at Y track. Is that true? Should one be holding off on suspension until he is a more proficient rider or is it preference? I'm sure at 200lbs I could atleast get the rear shock resprung for my weight as I think these bikes are built for dudes in the 150lb area.

[Lazarus]

which 2ct - they'll all 2cts now. The Power Pilot 2ct?

True, they are all dual compound but the Pilot Power 2ct is the only tire with 2ct in the name so I just say 2ct.

[Ga-Bandit]

True, they are all dual compound but the Pilot Power 2ct is the only tire with 2ct in the name so I just say 2ct.


:doh:sorry

[Wheedle]

Speaking of suspension I understand that a stock 600 supersport suspension can handle most mortal riders out there in terms of "outriding" it. I was always under the impression that because of this suspension is one of those things you modify when you get faster eg when you are turning X times at Y track. Is that true? Should one be holding off on suspension until he is a more proficient rider or is it preference? I'm sure at 200lbs I could atleast get the rear shock resprung for my weight as I think these bikes are built for dudes in the 150lb area.

IMHO... sounds like you need to at least do a respring and probably service both forks and shock.

[MegaSquid]

Lazarus I don't think it really matters what tire size you run as you crash every time you go to the track. What you need is training wheels.

[ramm]

For what it's worth Laz, I was spinning on the 190 exiting 5 onto the back straight a lot. But it was as I was standing the bike up and whacking the throttle.

I'm pretty sure it was my fault for whacking the throttle but it was fun. Until it stepped out real far and I came in the pits and called it a day. :lol:

[Georgiacbr]

For what it's worth Laz, I was spinning on the 190 exiting 5 onto the back straight a lot. But it was as I was standing the bike up and whacking the throttle.

I'm pretty sure it was my fault for whacking the throttle but it was fun. Until it stepped out real far and I came in the pits and called it a day. :lol:

ah priceless (LOL)....

[MegaSquid]

some people just need to learn how to ride first before worrying about tires. If they ride shitty they will blame the tires or suspension.

[RogueElement]

some people just need to learn how to ride first before worrying about tires. If they ride shitty they will blame the tires or suspension.

Who are you? 2 post count and both are bashing Laz.

[Dave1kRR]

Who are you? 2 post count and both are bashing Laz.

His name doesn't give him much crediblity either....lol

[ramm]

Who are you? 2 post count and both are bashing Laz.

Troll.

[Todd]

Who are you? 2 post count and both are bashing Laz.


His name doesn't give him much crediblity either....lol


Troll.

doesnt take a high post count to tell the truth. :lol:

I raced for a year and a half on a bone stock (suspension too) 1999 R6, and won alot of races on it. Does suspension help? yep. Do good tires help? yep, but truth be told, "good tires" and stock suspension can be ridden extremely fast, and done without crashing.

[Dave1kRR]

doesnt take a high post count to tell the truth. :lol:

I raced for a year and a half on a bone stock (suspension too) 1999 R6, and won alot of races on it. Does suspension help? yep. Do good tires help? yep, but truth be told, "good tires" and stock suspension can be ridden extremely fast, and done without crashing.

Very true, Todd. I was on my stock suspension til about 2 months ago and was pretty happy with it once I had it setup by GMD @ JGP at a track day back in 05.

[MegaSquid]

this troll speaks the truth and it will hurt only the ones who don't think they're guilty of it. the first post was for lazarus, and the second was for everyone else that i hear complaining. the truth hurts sometimes but someone gotta tell you. and btw while I,d like to tell you I,m a superhero, I,m just MegaSquid!

[ramm]

doesnt take a high post count to tell the truth. :lol:

I raced for a year and a half on a bone stock (suspension too) 1999 R6, and won alot of races on it. Does suspension help? yep. Do good tires help? yep, but truth be told, "good tires" and stock suspension can be ridden extremely fast, and done without crashing.

Well it is the truth. But why not say it on your main account? :shrug:

[Todd]

Chris, something you know that we dont? What other account is there?

[ramm]

Chris, something you know that we dont? What other account is there?

vvv


this troll speaks the truth and it will hurt only the ones who don't think they're guilty of it. the first post was for lazarus, and the second was for everyone else that i hear complaining. the truth hurts sometimes but someone gotta tell you. and btw while I,d like to tell you I,m a superhero, I,m just MegaSquid!


some people just need to learn how to ride first before worrying about tires. If they ride shitty they will blame the tires or suspension.

[Todd]

im still trying to figure out why you think its someone with dual accounts?

[RogueElement]

im still trying to figure out why you think its someone with dual accounts?

His first post was bashing Laz about wrecking every track day. So unless he's just been busy reading up on every thread known to man, he wouldn't exactly know that. :up:

[ramm]

im still trying to figure out why you think its someone with dual accounts?

3 posts.

Join date was Yesterday.

He 'knows' (I use that word loosely) Laz.

Just 3 quick things that stand out.

[Todd]

His first post was bashing Laz about wrecking every track day. So unless he's just been busy reading up on every thread known to man, he wouldn't exactly know that. :up:


3 posts.

Join date was Yesterday.

He 'knows' (I use that word loosely) Laz.

Just 3 quick things that stand out.
:lol: Look, i like Laz, i really do, and i want him to get better and I'm willing to help him to get there (he just has to listen and take advice), but it wouldnt take someone 24 hours to read, lets say just the trackday forum, to know Laz has crashed a couple of times. And while it may not be "good form" to call someone out on that after just joining the board, you never know just how long the newb may have been reading the board. And for what its worth, Mr. Squid has logged in at 3 different locations (3 different ip's), but no other username has logged in from any of those ip's.

[ramm]

:lol: Look, i like Laz, i really do, and i want him to get better and I'm willing to help him to get there (he just has to listen and take advice), but it wouldnt take someone 24 hours to read, lets say just the trackday forum, to know Laz has crashed a couple of times. And while it may not be "good form" to call someone out on that after just joining the board, you never know just how long the newb may have been reading the board. And for what its worth, Mr. Squid has logged in at 3 different locations (3 different ip's), but no other username has logged in from any of those ip's.

:lol: Well then maybe he isn't but I still think it's an honest troll. I can log in from a different IP address real quick too. Actually have a few to choose from if I wanted to. :D Not to mention proxy's. However, I don't see why someone would go through that much trouble. So...MAYBE, just MAYBE you're right and it isn't another user. I still think it is though.

[Todd]

in two clicks, i can tell if YOU log in under a different IP, there is an option for me to click "find all users with this IP", along with "find all IP's for this user".

Unless said troll is just out to get Laz, f'kng with proxies just isnt worth the trouble.

Hell, you may be right, but unless squid boy turns every post he makes into insulting our illustrious/infamous Laz, i just dont see it.

[ramm]

in two clicks, i can tell if YOU log in under a different IP, there is an option for me to click "find all users with this IP", along with "find all IP's for this user".

Unless said troll is just out to get Laz, f'kng with proxies just isnt worth the trouble.

Hell, you may be right, but unless squid boy turns every post he makes into insulting our illustrious/infamous Laz, i just dont see it.

Yeh Brett showed me that shit one night. Every IP I've ever logged in under is there. :lol:

If someone is using a proxy just to talk shit, that'd be hilarious. Or possibly using an on the go wireless network carrier card.

Laz stop crashing! That's the moral of the story!

[Wheedle]

FWIW... I learned the most at the track riding a underpowered flexy POS bike on hard assed shit tires for two days at completley unfamiliar courses ( Cadwell Park and Donnington Park on a CB500 ). The other biggest learning experience was probably running Tally on a DRZ400 ( 33 HP of Fury ) on street tires and losing the front, the rear, or both somewhere pretty much every lap and learning how to gather it back up.

[Ringo®]

Who are you? 2 post count and both are bashing Laz.

He's the chairman of the 108mph club.

[Dave1kRR]

He's the chairman of the 108mph club.

:rofl:

[ramm]

He's the chairman of the 108mph club.

:crackup:

[Georgiacbr]

:lol: Well then maybe he isn't but I still think it's an honest troll. I can log in from a different IP address real quick too. Actually have a few to choose from if I wanted to. :D Not to mention proxy's. However, I don't see why someone would go through that much trouble. So...MAYBE, just MAYBE you're right and it isn't another user. I still think it is though.


You all have way too much free time on your hands.

[cjbez07]

:crackup:

you know.. i havnt seen seca on this thread yet.. ummmmmmm??? ... hahahaha lmao..

[Lazarus]

Well whoever it is doesn't have all their facts because I dont crash every time I go to the track.

[Todd]

you know.. i havnt seen seca on this thread yet.. ummmmmmm??? ... hahahaha lmao..
he's too busy w/S** these days to get on here. :lol:

[Todd]

Well whoever it is doesn't have all their facts because I dont crash every time I go to the track.
no, not EVERYtime. :D

[cjbez07]

he's too busy w/S** these days to get on here. :lol:

:rofl:

[Lazarus]

no, not EVERYtime. :D

Well the good thing is I've come to the realization that I'm trying to do too much in or before that corner.

[THE MUFFIN MAN]

Well the good thing is I've come to the realization that I'm trying to do too much in or before that corner.Laz, it sounds like you are trying to do too much PERIOD!! i dont know how may track days you've done, but my guess is 3. to hear you "analyzing" corners, as though you have so much seat time at track X, and have figured out every OTHER corner there, is really puzzling. i have said this before, and i'll say it again. SLOW YOUR MIND DOWN, and you will become a faster rider. with 3 track days under your belt, you shouldnt be "analyzing" any corner, or anything, other than being smooth, predictable, and consistent, no matter what track you're riding. with your balls to the walls mental approach, you're bound to kiss the pavement at ANY track you go to!

[Georgiacbr]

Laz, it sounds like you are trying to do too much PERIOD!! i dont know how may track days you've done, but my guess is 3. to hear you "analyzing" corners, as though you have so much seat time at track X, and have figured out every OTHER corner there, is really puzzling. i have said this before, and i'll say it again. SLOW YOUR MIND DOWN, and you will become a faster rider. with 3 track days under your belt, you shouldnt be "analyzing" any corner, or anything, other than being smooth, predictable, and consistent, no matter what track you're riding. with your balls to the walls mental approach, you're bound to kiss the pavement at ANY track you go to!

Well stated I agree...

[MX Tuner]

Its common to start over analyzing what you're doing on the track. Think about what you're doing, and how it happens but unless you have some good info to base your thoughts on (Bargy school or some other instructor who really can convey what is happening well, not just your faster friends opinions), you can start over thinking virtually all aspects of riding. And unless you really do know, you could be thinking exactly the opposite of what you need to be concentrating on since some of what makes faster riders faster is counter-intuitive.

In other words, don't over complicate it- just learn what is *really* happening in *your* particular situation. Control riders following you may be able to provide some very good insight. Squires is a good example of over analyzing most anything including how a toaster makes bread browner. But that is based on his desire to learn how everything works. Nothing wrong with that at all, just make certain you're getting good insight. Besides, everyone knows toasters work by little guys with different shades of brown paint in them.

I recently took a local expert roadracer to a motocross track. He's never really been on a full size dirtbike off-road. First thing he was trying to do was take the analytical approach to throttle control and traction. Early in the day, he managed to learn the way a knobby hooks up all of a sudden and managed to find one of the few trees within 30 feet of the track. Ya gotta learn to walk (learn the very basics) before you can run. His thoughts were he was familiar with throttle control, cornering, etc, but didn't have enough experience with stepping the back end out and "holding" it there. Once the back end stepped out a couple inches, he let off the throttle and got right back into it. All that did was completely change his angle of approach to a much steeper arc and, instinctively and very quickly, he got right back into the throttle before he realized what was happening. He headed off the track and the tree encounter happened. Classic case of trying too hard too fast thinking he had the skills necessary. He has some skills but not the sensations of knowing how to do some of the basic points of jumping and finer points of aggressive cornering properly. He's proving to be a very fast learner but has a ways to go. On that note, I've been riding off-road for 40+ years and am still learning new sensations and am still trying to break old habits of incorrect techniques I've learned over the years.

[MX Tuner]

The other biggest learning experience was probably running Tally on a DRZ400 ( 33 HP of Fury ) on street tires and losing the front, the rear, or both somewhere pretty much every lap and learning how to gather it back up.

You need to come ride moto with us one day! You're the type of person who would learn volumes in very short order.

[Wheedle]

You need to come ride moto with us one day! You're the type of person who would learn volumes in very short order.

I've done lots of d/s and trail riding, never done much actual moto tho... I'd love to.
No bike to do it, and baby on the way... might be a bit before I get my hands on another dirty bike.