Heath Care Vote, looks like we're screwed

[jkhonea]

Believe I saw at one point CNN saying the number of votes was 228-195. Believe 216 was all that was necessary to pass. This isn't good. Hope I read that wrong.

[Butthead]

FDRII. hope you foolish libs who voted in these clowns enjoy your newest tax bill. i cannot wait
until the irs shows up at your door asking for proof of your healthcare coverage.

[petrel800]

Pretty much a done deal now, Stupac reached a deal on abortion. Bill will pass as written, Presbo issues executive order.

This country as founded is dead. I'm afraid it will take much more than an election to right the course.

It will be interesting to see what we are willing to do.

[ga_skyline_rydr]

Is this really any surprise? Now let us see if these lovely politcos get voted back in come November. Me guess is they will for the most part get voted back into office.

[jkhonea]

We're so far past screwed. At this point, not going to much matter who is voted back in come November, the damage will already be done. Once this bill is in, its in. There will be no backing it out later. Not going to happen.

We're ****ed.

[ga_skyline_rydr]

We're so far past screwed. At this point, not going to much matter who is voted back in come November, the damage will already be done. Once this bill is in, its in. There will be no backing it out later. Not going to happen.

We're ****ed.

There alot of health care providers that are going to bail cause of this. When one thinks of it, in a way the health care providers are at fault for this for the damn high fees they charge. One plain example of this is what happened to me, 45 minutes of slicing and dicing and the surgeon sends me a bill for over 9k dollars. Now I know he has malpractice insurance to pay, but damn 45 minutes for 9 thousand dollars. Next thing that will happen is the feds will tell the providers they are not going anywhere but to jail if they give up their practice.

[derhntr76]

Let the onslaught begin. You're about to see some of the finest dancing these traitors can do in front of their ex-constituents.

[highside]

Yup - we're pretty much screwed. How long before they try for single payer again, I wonder?

[Butthead]

not long, because they will quickly 'regulate' the insurance companies until they give up.


Yup - we're pretty much screwed. How long before they try for single payer again, I wonder?

[jkhonea]

not long, because they will quickly 'regulate' the insurance companies until they give up.

That's exactly what I'm expecting will happen.

[Georgiacbr]

this is what we voted for Change LOL. This is going to make the country broke worst off then before.

[MrBlah]

I shoulda moved my 401k to bonds last week

[Karl Hungus]

I shoulda moved my 401k to bonds last week

I have a bunch invested in Vanguard's Healthcare Fund. I have no idea what effect this might have on it, but I know for sure that people are going to continue to need healthcare services.

[patracy]

It's offical, we're screwed.

I might not have agreed with other presidents, and certainly not congress. But if any one of them (that voted for this turd pile) were to walk out in front of a bus. I wouldn't shed a tear. I'd actually laugh most likely.

[jkhonea]

I would find a way to get on the bus and hit the gas harder to make sure not to miss. This is pathetic.

[patracy]

I would find a way to get on the bus and hit the gas harder to make sure not to miss. This is pathetic.

Screw that, I'd hit them slow, then back over them. Slowly.

Then repeat.

[jkhonea]

The irony in all of this. We're creating a system closer and closer to the European countries. I could have sworn that's why America was formed to begin with. To NOT be like our European counterparts. How utterly sad and pathetic.

[AutomationTech]

They cannot change/repeal the US Constitution without help from the 'poor victimized people', they will collapse the system until 'we' beg them to save us. Of course they will need to suspend a few liberties that keep them from doing the "People's Work". The Constitution and Bill Of Rights have been an impediment to effecting the 'change' they need to make for our own good. They have squandered away medicare, social security etc with insider deals and pay offs to keep their positions of power. To change directions and actually save our system now would be to admit they were wrong and accomplices.
We have just begun to see what they will do to stay in power.

[UNICOS]

Revolution time?

[jkhonea]

They cannot change/repeal the US Constitution without help from the 'poor victimized people', they will collapse the system until 'we' beg them to save us. Of course they will need to suspend a few liberties that keep them from doing the "People's Work". The Constitution and Bill Of Rights have been an impediment to effecting the 'change' they need to make for our own good. They have squandered away medicare, social security etc with insider deals and pay offs to keep their positions of power. To change directions and actually save our system now would be to admit they were wrong and accomplices.
We have just begun to see what they will do to stay in power.

VERY wise post!

[BUD]

I'm so mad about this right now anything I post in this thread will be xed out.

[Mortalis5509]

Everyone is saying that we are screwed. OK, so what is exactly in the bill? What are "they" going to require that we do now? How is it screwing us. This is not to start an argument but lets be informative on the highlights of this wonderful bill.

[SlimDizzleATL]

Everyone is saying that we are screwed. OK, so what is exactly in the bill? What are "they" going to require that we do now? How is it screwing us. This is not to start an argument but lets be informative on the highlights of this wonderful bill.

Yes. Please elaborate on what everyone is so up in arms about.

P.s. - Things are going to keep going like this until America implodes. ie Rome. Something to think about.

[Karl Hungus]

Everyone is saying that we are screwed. OK, so what is exactly in the bill? What are "they" going to require that we do now? How is it screwing us. This is not to start an argument but lets be informative on the highlights of this wonderful bill.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/your-money/health-insurance/22consumer.html

[tigerrider]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/22/your-money/health-insurance/22consumer.html
Thanks


Six months after the legislation is enacted, many plans would be prohibited from placing lifetime limits on medical coverage, and they could not cancel the policies of people who fall ill. Children with pre-existing conditions could not be denied coverage.
and

In 2014, people with pre-existing conditions could no longer be denied insurance, all lifetime and annual limits on coverage would be eliminated and new policies would be required to meet higher benefit standards.

This bill would have never recieved any support if those above items would have been addressed by the Insurance companies years ago.

/the amount of froth here lately is wild.

[Butthead]

well, lets see.

-the 'rich' taxed so that the non-producers may have h/care insurance (even thought most can afford it)
-mandated health coverage
-the IRS with control over the mandate
-you can be fined, fed refunds denied or jailed for failure to obain insurance
-fed government can control profits of insurance companies
-fed government can control your benefits
-fed to determine what approriate h/care procedures
-force of 30 million additional people into h/care will cause physician shortages
-defacto coverage for all illegal aliens
-abortion funding from the federal govenment
-forced fed police of interstate commerce

is that enough?


Everyone is saying that we are screwed. OK, so what is exactly in the bill? What are "they" going to require that we do now? How is it screwing us. This is not to start an argument but lets be informative on the highlights of this wonderful bill.

[Butthead]

ok, i'll bite. from a business perspective what would you do? are you saying the insurance companies should allow someone to not have coverage,
then find out they have some massive problem, and then show up and want insurance? and then the company should pay and pay and pay?


This bill would have never recieved any support if those above items would have been addressed by the Insurance companies years ago.

[tigerrider]

ok, i'll bite. from a business perspective what would you do? are you saying the insurance companies should allow someone to not have coverage,
then find out they have some massive problem, and then show up and want insurance? and then the company should pay and pay and pay?

My sister in law who is a breast cancer survivor will be able to get insurance. Right now she can't. For thousands of people, it is that simple.

[Butthead]

well, that is great for her, but don't call it insurance. the taxpayor is just paying her medical bills.


My sister in law who is a breast cancer survivor will be able to get insurance. Right now she can't. For thousands of people, it is that simple.

[Phatmax]

They cannot change/repeal the US Constitution without help from the 'poor victimized people', they will collapse the system until 'we' beg them to save us. Of course they will need to suspend a few liberties that keep them from doing the "People's Work". The Constitution and Bill Of Rights have been an impediment to effecting the 'change' they need to make for our own good. They have squandered away medicare, social security etc with insider deals and pay offs to keep their positions of power. To change directions and actually save our system now would be to admit they were wrong and accomplices.
We have just begun to see what they will do to stay in power.

The HUGO CHAVEZ method of government

[wbeck257]

Another good overlook: http://www.ajc.com/business/a-look-at-the-390466.html

[MrBlah]

well, that is great for her, but don't call it insurance. the taxpayor is just paying her medical bills.

explain why someone that had cancer, now cured, should not be able to get insurance?

[Butthead]

after a certain period of time they can. (and in your example, why did they lose the insurance in the first place?)


explain why someone that had cancer, now cured, should not be able to get insurance?

[MrBlah]

after a certain period of time they can. (and in your example, why did they lose the insurance in the first place?)

you did not answer the question

[bigb996]

RIP USA......this is pretty exciting i now get to pay for all the people that smoke like a chimney, crackheads, meth addicts, people who cant control their portions and weigh 800lbs, illegal immigrants, and other idiots cancer, Oxygen, heart conditions and other issues they have later in life because they made bad choices. HOORAY FOR AMERICA!

[MONICA]

For Mr. Blah

Probably because it is really hard to say when cancer is "cured", and the definition of "cured" may vary. Some believe it is when there is only a small percent chance that it will return. Others believe it is when there are no cancer cells in the body, but it may be hard to tell when you are "cured" as opposed to just in remission. So it can be perceived as a risk to the insurance company, because it may come back.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/blog/zimney-health-and-medical-news-you-can-use/cancer-cure-vs-remission/

[MrBlah]

RIP USA......this is pretty exciting i now get to pay for all the people that smoke like a chimney, crackheads, meth addicts, people who cant control their portions and weigh 800lbs, illegal immigrants, and other idiots cancer, Oxygen, and other issues they have later in life because they made bad choices. HOORAY FOR AMERICA!

we already did, that does not really change

[wbeck257]

RIP USA......this is pretty exciting i now get to pay for all the people that smoke like a chimney, crackheads, meth addicts, people who cant control their portions and weigh 800lbs, illegal immigrants, and other idiots cancer, Oxygen, heart conditions and other issues they have later in life because they made bad choices. HOORAY FOR AMERICA!

You already did...

[DICKIEDOO]

explain why someone that had cancer, now cured, should not be able to get insurance?

It's that simple for some people, but Dean never said that she shouldn't be covered. He was pointing out that the new "coverage" she would have would be at the expense of the tax payers. The system wont work that way for long. With all you boomers getting older the pot will have more hands in it taking than giving.

No one is saying covering everyone is a bad thing...we just cant find a way to pay for it. If you can please share it with the rest of us and Washington. This "everyone deserves healthcare" shit is just that. It's a flowery fallacy. Even then I can get behind it as long as you figure out how to pay for it with out putting the burden on the already suffering American populous.

[MrBlah]

For Mr. Blah

Probably because it is really hard to say when cancer is "cured", and the definition of "cured" may vary. Some believe it is when there is only a small percent chance that it will return. Others believe it is when there are no cancer cells in the body, but it may be hard to tell when you are "cured" as opposed to just in remission. So it can be perceived as a risk to the insurance company, because it may come back.

http://www.everydayhealth.com/blog/zimney-health-and-medical-news-you-can-use/cancer-cure-vs-remission/

that's the insurance industry's old answer, at least this bill fixes that, in our example breast cancer is either cured or it's not

there's a million other examples of insurance industry abuse on this topic, the news has been flooded with them the last few months. I think if this bill did not have the pre-existing condition changes in it, it would not have even passed, that's the only thing I supported in the bill, the rest is crap

[bigb996]

we already did, that does not really change

let me rephrase that i get to pay for MORE idiots not to mention it now covers them to kill their fetus.

The problem i have more than anything is people who are lazy and have no ambitions in life will have better insurance than what im paying 120 a month for and i NEVER go to the doctor.


Also can someone explain how we are going to help the deficit by spending billions on this? I have not been able to find a single interview, article, etc that would explain how we are going to help our deficit. They just keep saying its going to.

[ga_skyline_rydr]

RIP USA......this is pretty exciting i now get to pay for all the people that smoke like a chimney, crackheads, meth addicts, people who cant control their portions and weigh 800lbs, illegal immigrants, and other idiots cancer, Oxygen, heart conditions and other issues they have later in life because they made bad choices. HOORAY FOR AMERICA!

That is right Brian, now we get to be as Rep Patrick Kennedy(D-RI) (the son of Teddy), said, that it is moral and a civil right to have health insurance.:micro:

[patracy]

Sweet, the other shoe has began to drop. It's 9:12am and two docs here at work have announced they're retiring. I'm interested to see what one of the docs at my wife's company will do today too.

[G_MAN]

Well, it's done. I don't know if this will cause us to be in an apocolyptic world (ie The Book of Eli or The Road), but I do know that this is how our system works. That's the great thing about it, everyone has some say or at least the illusion of having some say via our "elected" officials. Yeah, this will probably turn out to be a colossal cluster f_ck, but the system we have now is a colossal cluster f_ck as is. Yes, I would love for the private sector to handle matters in ways that benefit THE PEOPLE, but we all know that's not why businesses are in business. One day both sides will realize they can't totally screw the other over if they want to continue to exist. Government will have to realize they are suppose to be in a limited role defined by the constitution and the private sector will have to realize that if they want the GUBMENT to stay out of their business then they should be just a little more wary of THE PEOPLE.

We have perfect examples of the short-comings of both sides, the Gubment can't run anything without waste and Business will screw the consumer over and over again if left unchecked. Oh well, all I can do is to continue to live and try to carve out a good life for my family.

[DICKIEDOO]

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[bigb996]

Oh well, all I can do is to continue to live and try to carve out a good life for my family.

thats exactly right



Al sharpton is an idiot along with jessie jackson and all those guys. They just take things and stir up uselesss trouble. however he does prove a point there.

[tigerrider]

let me rephrase that i get to pay for MORE idiots not to mention it now covers them to kill their fetus.


It doesn't.

Also if it *did*..there would be fewer idiots to cover right??

[MrBlah]

Also can someone explain how we are going to help the deficit by spending billions on this? I have not been able to find a single interview, article, etc that would explain how we are going to help our deficit. They just keep saying its going to.

they SAY they are going to cut medicare funding and payments, that's how they pay for much of this whole disaster

everyone knows that will NOT happen, and the CBO is not allowed to calculate the cost properly due to the up front funding with no cost language in the bill, ie 10 years of cost, 10 years of tax increase, 6 years of payments. If they cost it out a few more years or cost the benefits out from day one, it'll be completely upside down even with the medicare cuts that they probably wont do

[bigb996]

they SAY they are going to cut medicare funding and payments, that's how they pay for much of this whole disaster

everyone knows that will NOT happen, and the CBO is not allowed to calculate the cost properly due to the up front funding with no cost language in the bill, ie 10 years of cost, 10 years of tax increase, 6 years of payments. If they cost it out a few more years or cost the benefits out from day one, it'll be completely upside down even with the medicare cuts that they probably wont do

so if i understand this correctly, if we look long term for say 25 years. It will basically run dry, and/or everyone will be paying so much tax we will be worse off per person financially?

[MrBlah]

so if i understand this correctly, if we look long term for say 25 years. It will basically run dry, and/or everyone will be paying so much tax we will be worse off per person financially?

they tax for 10 years and only have to pay bills for about 6 years of it, that's why they say it's a reduction

if you look 11-12 years it'll be upside down

if you assume they will never ever cut medicare like they said they would (they never have, every time they said they would) then it's upside down almost instantly

[patracy]

Sweet, the other shoe has began to drop. It's 9:12am and two docs here at work have announced they're retiring. I'm interested to see what one of the docs at my wife's company will do today too.

Looks like one of the doctors at my Wife's employer wants out now too. So that's three I know of so far.

[jkhonea]

Looks like one of the doctors at my Wife's employer wants out now too. So that's three I know of so far.

Hey Drew, remember our discussions about "V for Vendetta"?

[MrBlah]

every admin change a bunch of gov employees I work with say they are gonna retire, but they never do

I will believe it when I see it

[bigb996]

they tax for 10 years and only have to pay bills for about 6 years of it, that's why they say it's a reduction

if you look 11-12 years it'll be upside down

if you assume they will never ever cut medicare like they said they would (they never have, every time they said they would) then it's upside down almost instantly

incredible....so they can talk the talk and well lets face it thats about it.

[wallypiper]

Business will screw the consumer over and over again if left unchecked.

Classic liberal fallacy.

I own a business. I never, ever, screw my customers and government regulation is not even remotely a factor. I think you'll find that many members where can make the same statement and most business people in general can make the same statement.

I'm not saying it never happens, but to say the "business" as a class will screw the consumer over, as a matter of course, if the government doesn't prevent it is just not true.

[02ep3]

so far the market doesn't seem to be too freaked out about the plan. The Healthcare segment of the market is up ~1% today. Merk, Phizer, etc. are all slightly up or flat today. So it doesn't yet appear to be armageddon. I wonder where we'll end up by the end of the week?

[jkhonea]

Classic liberal fallacy.

I own a business. I never, ever, screw my customers and government regulation is not even remotely a factor. I think you'll find that many members where can make the same statement and most business people in general can make the same statement.

I'm not saying it never happens, but to say the "business" as a class will screw the consumer over, as a matter of course, if the government doesn't prevent it is just not true.

And what's even funnier is the believe that the government WON'T screw you over and over again at every possible opportunity.

[jkhonea]

so far the market doesn't seem to be too freaked out about the plan. The Healthcare segment of the market is up ~1% today. Merk, Phizer, etc. are all slightly up or flat today. So it doesn't yet appear to be armageddon. I wonder where we'll end up by the end of the week?

I think ultimately its going to be after its finished in the Senate that the fallout will start. Just what I'm expecting.

[G_MAN]

Wally, you are a good business owner. I applaud you, but there are many business that don't run like you do. Yes, I know that not every business will "screw" the consumer over any and everytime. However, you can't say that if left uncheck "big business" (and maybe I should have used that modifier to begin with) will do the right thing. No I don't believe the government will do the right thing(s) either, but the classic liberal fallacy as you put it has a converse. The Classic Capitalistic Fallacy, denying that big business is in the business of making money at all cost.

You and I can go back and forth with examples that support either view, I'm not arguing or trying to convince you of anything. I was trying to make the point of how both of these factors cause/feed off of the other. Maybe I did a bad job of making my point, and if I offended you by saying "business" I do apologize. I agree with you that small businesses do tend to be more consumer friendly, we agree there.

What type of business do you run, if I need that particular service I'll gladly call upon you since I know you are one of the "Good Ones"

[Barton72]

I just bought my own private health insurance policy last week. My claimed income probably puts me in the lower middle. How will this affect someone like me if any?

[wallypiper]

You and I can go back and forth with examples that support either view, I'm not arguing or trying to convince you of anything. I was trying to make the point of how both of these factors cause/feed off of the other. Maybe I did a bad job of making my point, and if I offended you by saying "business" I do apologize. I agree with you that small businesses do tend to be more consumer friendly, we agree there.

What type of business do you run, if I need that particular service I'll gladly call upon you since I know you are one of the "Good Ones"

Small engineering company, niche market. Light manufacturing axuiliary equipment and systems - pumps, chillers, cooling towers, air compressors, dehumidifiers, system design, project design, project management blah blah. Primary sales engineer never says "No, we can't do that" even if we've never done it before so by all means, if its something you can utilize, just ask.

No doubt all businesses are in business to make money but I really believe that most, even large ones, understand that making an extra 10% off of a customer today but screwing him over to do it is foolish in the long run. Some businesses certainly operate on the PREMISE of screwing people (payday/title loan companies for example) but the really big companies - the Walmarts, Home Depots, even the cable companies - don't actually try to screw the public. We might not always think the customer service they provide is what we deserve or what we expect but almost all of them will, if they cannot satisfy you, at least refund your money.

Frankly, to illustrate where I am in general on this issue, I think even the big banks get a bad rap. They aren't very friendly but I think that they almost always do what they say are going to do. People just don't listen to what they say. (Or what they write, in tiny print that covers 6-8 pages. But it's there.)

On another note, health care and pharmaceutical stocks are up because the government is forcing millions of people that have not been participating in the insurance pool to join in. New customers with no choice. And if the government is going to take money from people that are already in the pool and use it to subsidize those new customers. Meanwhile, no real cost control measures have been taken at all. Happy times in the health care industry.

[patracy]

every admin change a bunch of gov employees I work with say they are gonna retire, but they never do

I will believe it when I see it

Would you like for me to send you the formal email notices from work?

BTW, we're not government employees. Nor is one of the partners of the company my Wife works for.

[MrBlah]

Would you like for me to send you the formal email notices from work?

BTW, we're not government employees. Nor is one of the partners of the company my Wife works for.

repost when they actually decide they dont want to earn money anymore, and they actually retire

[02ep3]

millions of new people in the insurance pool is a key point. Average costs are lower if there are more people participating in the pool. That's how insurance works. We're all already paying for those people that do not have health insurance. We pay it through higher costs of healthcare, hospitals et al need to recoup the costs for those that don't pay.

I'm disappointed as well that the bill is not tougher on pharmaceutical manufacturers, it extends patents for name brand drugs and does not allow collective bargaining for drug costs. Some of that may be good for the industry but i see it mostly as a bone thrown to the industry so they'll play along. Ideally, the bill would be tougher. But, come on, if we were talking about that even 3 months ago such measures would have been lambasted as being "too liberal." If you think that sort of thing should have been in there, the time to have said something has past.

My point that stocks are up points to that the healthcare bill is not the Armageddon that has been predicted. I trust the collective choices of all market participants more than the 15-odd people in this forum (no offense), my own opinion, or the opinion of any number of politicians. I believe the market is already pricing in what is going to happen in the senate, i believe we'll see the reconciliation bill pass. Of course, the market isn't the ONE and ONLY indicator. It's just A indicator among many. So far --and it is early-- business generally thinks the bill will be good for business.

[patracy]

repost when they actually decide they dont want to earn money anymore, and they actually retire

Ummm I guess you're not understanding it. They formally put in their notice to retire today. One will work until April 9th. The other was till July something. The one where my Wife works at will be when they can transition his role to other partners.

They have enough investments to tide them over. They simply don't want to deal with the bullshite to follow.

[patracy]

Tell ya what, PM me your email address and I'll send you the PDF's of it.

[02ep3]

I think ultimately its going to be after its finished in the Senate that the fallout will start. Just what I'm expecting.

If you think so, go short. Make the killing on the Armageddon you expect.

[jkhonea]

If you think so, go short. Make the killing on the Armageddon you expect.

Never said Armageddon, don't be a drama queen. What I do think is what's happened has got zero to do with health care to the government. It was purely and simply a power grab and a way to get deeper into our pockets and personal lives. Period.

[Barton72]

I just bought my own private health insurance policy last week. My claimed income probably puts me in the lower middle. How will this affect someone like me if any?
Anyone?

[BUD]

Never said Armageddon, don't be a drama queen. What I do think is what's happened has got zero to do with health care to the government. It was purely and simply a power grab and a way to get deeper into our pockets and personal lives. Period.

Exactly! This has NOTHING to do with health insurance and EVERYTHING to do with control. Typical liberal tactics, manufacture a crisis or embellish one and make the government seem like the only answer. Why do you think this was such a priority?

[Karl Hungus]

Telling my insurance company they can't cancel me when I get sick, or that they can't place annual or lifetime caps on my benefits, don't seem like a bad thing to me.

[MrBlah]

Ummm I guess you're not understanding it. They formally put in their notice to retire today. One will work until April 9th. The other was till July something. The one where my Wife works at will be when they can transition his role to other partners.

They have enough investments to tide them over. They simply don't want to deal with the bullshite to follow.

just post back on here when they actually retire, I've seen people do this before and then pull papers because they really do want to continue to earn money

[wallypiper]

Telling my insurance company they can't cancel me when I get sick, or that they can't place annual or lifetime caps on my benefits, don't seem like a bad thing to me.

I've never had, or expected to be able to purchase, an insurance policy without a benefit cap. Life insurance has a defined benefit. Auto insurance has limits per person, per accident, per year. Why should health insurance be different? If it is the will of the people that nobody should be denied health care because they can't afford it, so be it. That doesn't sound like a bad thing. But the rule making needs to be in the area of what is required health care and what is abuse of the system. There are so many bad aspects to this bill. The tax on high end policies, for example, is so wrongheaded that it boggles my mind. If I want to spend extra money to make sure that I have more insurance than the average joe, I should not be penalized for that. In fact, I should be encouraged to do it since in most cases it means I will put more money in the pool relative the benefits I extract than average joe does.


I trust the collective choices of all market participants
The market is a short term judge of what's good. Rarely does it reflect a long term perspective. People are jumping in the make short term profits on stock price moves. I don't think the stock market reflects broad expectations of the long term impact of this, or any, market change.

[patracy]

just post back on here when they actually retire, I've seen people do this before and then pull papers because they really do want to continue to earn money

Made a reminder on my Calendar for April 9th. I'll make sure to update you since you seem to not believe.

PM me your email address and I'll send you the PDF doc with their retirement notice that went out.

I can't say I blame them. If I had enough in investments and faced ludicrous legislation in just trying to work. I'd get out too.

[MrBlah]

4th time, I don't want the pdf notice, just update this thread

[02ep3]

The market is a short term judge of what's good. Rarely does it reflect a long term perspective. People are jumping in the make short term profits on stock price moves. I don't think the stock market reflects broad expectations of the long term impact of this, or any, market change.

Point taken. Butthead, what do you think of this? Do you think the power of the market will effectively price the impact of healthcare legislation? Or is the market ineffective for such purposes? I was under the impression that the market was all-powerful and a market-based solution is all that was required to solve healthcare and all other ills.

[Trey]

Anyone?

Barton my guess is no one really knows (including the congressmen who signed this bill) .. My guess is in the short term it won't effect you at all..

[Trey]

Seemed about right.. :lol:

338

[Hammerhead]

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[Barton72]

Barton my guess is no one really knows (including the congressmen who signed this bill) .. My guess is in the short term it won't effect you at all..
Yeah, that is what I figure Trey. From what I have read the world isn't going to end and I will continue to do things exactly like I did before.

[wallypiper]

It is true that nothing will really change for you short term unless your income is low enough to qualify for credits or your policies are "caddilacs" that qualify for extra taxes. Long term, it just depends on who you ask and what forecast they believe in. You can find analysis that supports everything from imminent collapse of the republic to deficit reduction and better health care for all. All of the speculation depends on predictions of behavior by businesses and individuals. Will businesses drop health insurance and pay a fine because the fine is less than the premiums? Maybe. Or maybe some will continue to provide coverage as a perk since they may be able to provide better insurance than their employees can get on the individual market. But maybe not.

A seemingly solid analysis of the tax implications can be found here (http://www.journalofaccountancy.com/Web/20102724.htm).

[TroyBoy30]

let me rephrase that i get to pay for MORE idiots not to mention it now covers them to kill their fetus.

The problem i have more than anything is people who are lazy and have no ambitions in life will have better insurance than what im paying 120 a month for and i NEVER go to the doctor.


Also can someone explain how we are going to help the deficit by spending billions on this? I have not been able to find a single interview, article, etc that would explain how we are going to help our deficit. They just keep saying its going to.

ABORTION: The bill tries to maintain a strict separation between taxpayer dollars and private premiums that would pay for abortion coverage. No health plan would be required to offer coverage for abortion. In plans that do cover abortion, policyholders would have to pay for it separately, and that money would have to be kept in a separate account from taxpayer money. States could ban abortion coverage in plans offered through the exchange. Exceptions would be made for cases of rape, incest and danger to the life of the mother.

[MrBlah]

It is true that nothing will really change for you short term

if you have a hsa/fsa account, it is changing the next time you renew, they put in a maximum, and they are limiting even further what you can use it for

[wallypiper]

if you have a hsa/fsa account, it is changing the next time you renew, they put in a maximum, and they are limiting even further what you can use it for

I can't find anything to corroborate that with regard to HSA accounts, other than removing over the counter drugs from the eligible use. That doesn't mean much, frankly. At least to me. I have an HSA but it will only be funded up to the out of pocket limit on my insurance. Then my insurance pays. It never really occurred to me to use it for OTC drugs. Do you have a link to details?

[MrBlah]

I can't find anything to corroborate that with regard to HSA accounts, other than removing over the counter drugs from the eligible use. That doesn't mean much, frankly. At least to me. I have an HSA but it will only be funded up to the out of pocket limit on my insurance. Then my insurance pays. It never really occurred to me to use it for OTC drugs. Do you have a link to details?

most summaries detail what they chagned, it's now capped to 2500

I had not heard that we cant get over the counter drugs now, that REALLY blows, I'm going to have to stock up before the change, and I'll have to get prescriptions for over the counter drugs next year (prilosec)

[ramm]

Ok...not to threadjack or anything...

But can someone point me in the direction to see what is actually in the bill, and what it means to an average joe.

Basically, wtf does this mean for me. The facts, not opinions.

[MrBlah]

Ok...not to threadjack or anything...

But can someone point me in the direction to see what is actually in the bill, and what it means to an average joe.

Basically, wtf does this mean for me. The facts, not opinions.

pick a news source, they all have summaries, and it's not straight facts because of 2 things

1: it's still going to change, there's another bill that repeals/changes parts of the bill they just signed into law
2: parts are intentionally vague and will be open to interpretation

[patracy]

just post back on here when they actually retire, I've seen people do this before and then pull papers because they really do want to continue to earn money

Forgot to update this thread Friday. Two retired so far at work. One will work until the fall at my Wife's office until the partnership can be transferred completely to the newest doctor.

[patracy]

Oh yeah forgot to mention. My wife left her current employer last thursday. She's started at another employer this week. It was to avoid the chaos that was ensuing from the "change".

I'm about to do that as well....