Do you Train as you Carry ?

[willr1]

Just some food for thought, amusing story and a "Teachable Moment" nothing more.

This week I meet some "friends of a friend" who wanted to play with their pistols and carbines and asked for some pointers since they know Im an instructor and vaguely know my background from my buddy. Nothing fancy, just a "Hey, what would you do, how would you do etc" type of time, just some guys out on a private range, nothing more.

Well, lets say these guys are "weekend warriors" who play enough airsoft and Xbox "Rainbow 6" that they began to show me how the "Pros" do it from what they have seen and heard.

All I have to say to the rest of you, train how you would carry and not what you see or 'hear" how to do it. These guys began to "role play" and do the "what if" scenarios that would take minutes to build up to the point to act instead of the seconds it would really occur in real life. I never had an opportunity to show them anything, as each one began to get excited and then teach the others how to do what they saw or heard and I just sat in the background, safely away from them and slightly amused.

After only 10mins of me humoring myself watching them play "Rambo", I told my buddy I was leaving as I do not want to be apart of this as they were not listening to my warnings of safety and do not want any part of this. As I shook my buddys hand and told them bye, they all just said ok bye and then one mouthed off about not teaching them anything (as I was not there to do, just see the property for hunting this fall). I returned to the group to show them one excersise, a "Daily Carry" drill and I told them that they were to follow my instructions if they wanted me to show them anything.

I lined the four of them up, about three feet away from their targets (custom made cardboard/wood that stays onsite) and told them to carry the way they do everyday, which only one OC'd, the others CC. I explained the scenario (armed person with knife, use verbal commands and draw and fire two rounds center mass while putting distance between you and the target) and demonstrated the excersise to make sure they fully understood what to do.

Well, lets just say one them them dropped their gun after fumbling it in their shirt coing out of the holster and never put any distance between the perp and him, one gave up after not clearing his holster (sitll did not move), the OC'er did not have a round chambered (after I instructed them to make their weapons hot) and had to chamber his Beretta and then pulled the trigger only to hear nothing and then found out the safety went back on automaticaly upon chambering and the last one actually did the drill correctly.

I ran the drill one time and asked how many have ever took a course with their weapon, not a single one said they did , just that they "knew how" to operate a gun and these guys are in their late 30's-early 40's, so they were not "kids" with toys. After the one excercise, I just told them that is the reason why I was leaving 10min ago because they were not taking the time on range seriously and how they could not only get themselves killed, but someone else by not knowing their weapons or practicing how they would actually use their firearm in a situation.

I wrote this long arse story to remind each and every person who reads this that no matter what you might have seen or heard, no matter how long you have been around guns, if you do not know your weapon or practice the way you carry, you do yourself (or family) no good and could really cause more issues than what is going on.

Please train the way you will carry, it is something as easy as 10min a day; drawing and dry firing to build the repetitave motions imbedded if your too proud to ask for instruction

[DecepticonDon]

+ a million on that.

I need to practice a little more. Used to practice my draw so much, i could close my eyes, draw and position the weapon....open my eyes and the sights would be lined up. when I was in practice, timed draw and first shot from concealment took a tad less than 1 3/4 seconds.

[Moorespeedr]

Excellent advice! As a bow hunter, I do the same with my practice. I once posted on a firearms discussion forum about practicing from actual shooting position instead of just on a bench. A couple other people stated that I sounded like a bow hunter because I wanted to practice real life shooting situations rather than just straight on to target etc.

Point being, this doesn't just apply to self protection. it applies to anything you do. Practice like it is the game. Without fail, it will be different, but you will be better prepared.

[rr_double_rr]

Amen. Muscle memory is one of the most powerful aids when the adrenaline is pumping and fear is clouding thoughts.

[Huey130]

Awesome story!

I like when I go with people to the range and they run the target out to 5 million yards and then take a knee and see how many they can put on the paper.

Me: How big is your beadroom?
Them: 12' x 20'?
Me: Then lets move the target to 5 yards.
They then go full Weaver and draw on the target for 4 full minutes concentrating on their breathing. BANG. 10 ring.
Me: Awesome! Why will the person trying to rape you and steal your goodies stand still for so long? Are they behind the curtains and don't think you see them?

Put the gun down. Pick the gun up, get on target, bang bang! If it's anywhere near the middle of the paper go get Waffle House.

[klassified187]

How much is professional instruction? Where is it offered?

[willr1]

Awesome story!

I like when I go with people to the range and they run the target out to 5 million yards and then take a knee and see how many they can put on the paper.

Me: How big is your beadroom?
Them: 12' x 20'?
Me: Then lets move the target to 5 yards.
They then go full Weaver and draw on the target for 4 full minutes concentrating on their breathing. BANG. 10 ring.
Me: Awesome! Why will the person trying to rape you and steal your goodies stand still for so long? Are they behind the curtains and don't think you see them?

Put the gun down. Pick the gun up, get on target, bang bang! If it's anywhere near the middle of the paper go get Waffle House.

lol, I hate when people do that, it erks me so much and when people say "I got all mine in the center", good, cause if one round dead center takes you 5secs, or does not stop them, neither does 10rnds in the same spot, If you can spread your hand out and get atleast 10rnds rapid fire within that spread over center mass, you did more than someone who can put a dozen rounds through the same hole.

[willr1]

How much is professional instruction? Where is it offered?

Depends on the course and instructor, some will try to price gouge you depending on their overhead, as much as $150-225 per day or offer a $350 two day course, it does not cost that much unless your paying on land usage. If your interested,check out my sig, a link to my business and see my rates, I offer a GSB discount and ask Reece if he had a good time, he and Rachelle took a basic NRA course from me in April.

[PhilJonez]

Willr1, on your website I see the list of the classes, but not the actual schedule. I'm very interested, I've taken several hand gun courses but it's been almost 10 years, and although I've continued to hit the range, I'm sure I have lost much of what I learned.

Thought I'd throw out personal story, one of the classes I took included a shoot house at night with plywood cutouts of bad guys/good guys and we had to clear the house with an instructor behind us (house was medium to dimly lit). I consider myself a decent shooter (better than I track motorcycles at least!!), and was excited at completing this drill efficiently, smoothly, and easily. As I entered the first room, and keep in mind this was a PLYWOOD CUTOUT, not even a real person with an airsoft weapon, and my adrenaline absolutely DUMPED. I put out 8 or 9 rounds, before instructor called down (meaning I should continue to clear house). I couldn't believe how much my heart rate increased from a simple plywood cutout... As I moved to the subsequent rooms, I got myself under a bit more control and "found" the sights on the gun again (i have no idea where they went.... :-)). After completing we went back through the house and of my 8 or 9 rounds on the first target, I managed to hit the target ONE time, in the wrist. If it had been real life, well pretty obvious the outcome... On the positive side, my shots were much more on target in the remaining rooms, but I can't imagine having to confront an attacker without having experienced something like this at least once... And obviously the more you experience, the more reliable your response will be....

Anyways, very interested, would be happy to receive a PM with a schedule.... THANKS!!!!

[willr1]

I have not posted a schedule due to upcoming events I have had this month, in July I will be posting classes. However, this does not mean I will not conduct a course, if you see something or want to learn something, just ask and I can do private classes. The "adrenaline dump/front sight loss" is called Tunnel Vision, it occurs when your under stress and you begin to have sensory deprevation as your brain is trying to keep you alive.
I'll post up another course, my next one will be a 4hr concealed carry class for novice shooters that will give you a refresher of basic firearm skills, but also teach you methods of carry, practical shooting and GA Law (OCGA 16-3-21) on use of deadly force.

[A&A Motorsports]

Great Website..... I hope I can do one of those courses soon.

[klassified187]

Wow.. I will definitely be signing up for a course! Not sure how soon but its a must! Thanks for the info

[willr1]

no problem guys, if the range will let me, I would show you how to shoot from your bike ;) (learned that in motor officer school)

[LEEnR6]

Great post. I have seen this same scenario myself and I am not a trainer. I am a big proponent for having people get training if they are carrying. I carried before I had any training and never realized how dangerous and unprepared I really was. After taking a basic pistol class I was hooked and I wanted to learn more. I went on to take many rifle, pistol, concealed carry, shotgun, and combatives/live fire classes. I try to take at least one course a year as a refresher. My next class is a 3 day vehicle class in Gadsden, Ala. at the end of this month. I try to shoot at least 2 times a month and practice dry firing and malfunction drills in the basement at home (with dummy rounds of course). I like to train and shoot to fight with rifles and pistols, not just game with them. Most of my training has been with the CombatHard guys. I highly recommend them as well.

I'm with Will. Train like you will carry!

[i-man]

no problem guys, if the range will let me, I would show you how to shoot from your bike ;) (learned that in motor officer school)

Wow, you guys have some great courses. I am considering taking one as I have just picked up a Glock 22 for OC and a Taurus PT709 for CC. Been a while since I have owned a pistol so could probably use the instruction.

[willr1]

Wow, you guys have some great courses. I am considering taking one as I have just picked up a Glock 22 for OC and a Taurus PT709 for CC. Been a while since I have owned a pistol so could probably use the instruction.

just let me know, I will post some upcoming courses Im putting on soon for August. I have been swamped helping another instructor the past two months and have not done anything myself

[PhilJonez]

Please post here when you post some courses, I'm interested for sure, just ordered a new CC holster and would like to do some training with it...

[TroyBoy30]

yup

[willr1]

I will, it probably will be in a week or two when things get cleared up. Would ya'll be able to do a course during the week or on a Sat ?

[PhilJonez]

Since I travel during the week for work, I'd need it to be on a Saturday or Sunday...

[everyday3]

Im up for it 2 weekend is my only option.

[HiJincs]

Count me in for a weekend course. I could also do a weekday if scheduled far enough in advance.

[Woodk61000]

I am interested in doing some courses also. I conceal carry every day with a Ruger LCP. The last informal training I did was with an old sniper that lived down in Statesboro when I went to GSU. I did a lot of open carry drills with him, but never any CC stuff. Im by no means an expert, or even advanced for that matter in high stress shooting situations. But if we are shooting slow where I can aim, im pretty good.

[Zico]

weekends and you can count me in for sure
except for this Month on the 13th and 14th

any chance of the Utah non-resident permit?
if you aren't certified to teach Utah, any way to combine the two together for our training?

[willr1]

weekends and you can count me in for sure
except for this Month on the 13th and 14th

any chance of the Utah non-resident permit?
if you aren't certified to teach Utah, any way to combine the two together for our training?

Utah is nice, but two states have backed out with them Nevada and N. Mexico since they require range time. If you take a course, ill issue you a NRA certificate and you can obtain your FL permit, which is just as good as Utah and you can carry it in GA. FL is $117 and is for 7yrs

[willr1]

Im going to the gun club tonight and Ill ask if any Sat/Sun are booked for the pistol course. From what Im reading, I think a concealed carry class will be the next course I will put on. Ill post the info on here when I get the date/time set up.

[Woodk61000]

Still very interested!

[willr1]

Ok, Ill check tommorrow when I go. Im teaching a private class tommorrow so if the club president or board member is there, ill follow up with them as far as weekends. Its tough there on weekends to run a class as that is when it is the busiest and with the rules, if someone is there on the line up front, we cant shoot from the 25yrd etc even on the opposite side of the range and vice versa. They are suppose to 'seperate" the ranges, but as of now, all the pistol ranges are staggared and everyone has to be on one line

[Jared]

Hey Will, sorry I lost touch with you - if you do that concealed course count me in. For sure. I'll drive out to Athens. I might need to borrow a holster if I don't buy a crossbreed soon!

[willr1]

Hey Will, sorry I lost touch with you - if you do that concealed course count me in. For sure. I'll drive out to Athens. I might need to borrow a holster if I don't buy a crossbreed soon!

10-4

[PhilJonez]

And I"m still interested as well - picked up my crossbreed a couple of weeks ago, pretty sweet....

[kylehoffman05]

This is one of my targets from last week. Shooting my Glock 26 Gen3 with Federal Champion 115gr FMJ RN at 7 yards. This was only my second time shooting this gun, so I'm still getting accustomed to it. Fired 2 strings of 10-shot rapid fire, 5 double taps, 3 failure-to-stop drills, and then had 1 round left over that I put through the big hole to the left of center. Took about 5 minutes to put all 40 rounds downrange, including reload time. It drives me wild when people take their time and line up on the target. The only people who have a valid excuse to take more than 5 seconds to launch a round are snipers :lol: Not the fanciest shooting, and nowhere near what I shoot with my 1911, but I'm confident I can get the job done.

http://www.georgiasportbike.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3426

[Parajoe]

I have never taken a course directed towards CC, and currently don't hold a CC Permit. That being said, I'm moving to GA and would like to get the CC License. I used to shoot USPSA, and am a B Limited shooter, so I can put rounds on target, where it counts. Should I take your Intermediate Class?

[willr1]

I have never taken a course directed towards CC, and currently don't hold a CC Permit. That being said, I'm moving to GA and would like to get the CC License. I used to shoot USPSA, and am a B Limited shooter, so I can put rounds on target, where it counts. Should I take your Intermediate Class?

That is up to you. I cannot speak for everyone, however, I will refer it to motorcycle riding. You can be "self taught" and ride without any formal training, however, those who take the MSF will learn the "proper" way to brake in turns, etc and those who take a track day benefit even more from doing everything at higher speed, thus making their skill level greater than just riding around in the mountains and the road.

Shooting paper targets is one thing, you shooting USPSA/IPSTC/IDPA etc will help you be more accurate when shooting faster, but if you do not practice shooting the way you would in a combative situation, than what good is it if you cannot draw from concealed, reload (combative or tacticaly) and engage targets the way you would on the street. I will say this, even at my level and expierence, I still take a course from other instructors and I have alway's learned atleast one new technique or excercise, so training is not a waste of money, but only you know if your current skill set can be used to defend yourself from two legged predators and not some static target.

Here is a link to another site where a person wrote up an honest review of my adv basic/intermediate course.
http://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/showthread.php?72291-My-first-formal-firearms-training-was-today!

[TheKorean]

I would like to take a course as well. I have my ccp, but never really carry. Used to shoot a lot when I was in college and belonged to Rifle & Pistol Club. Haven't really shot much since. Please let us all know when you update your future courses.